Fuel economy myths

"one of the hoariest of urban myths: That forcing higher fuel economy
standards on American car buyers is what's needed to encourage more
energy-efficient vehicles and make Detroit more competitive with its
import competitors.

"That's wrong..."

Fortune magazine article: http://301url.com/cmr

 

Oh really!! Forcing higher mileage requirements may be the only way to
get the public to consider conservation.

Detroit is not competitive already, in many instances. Economy is but one.

 

Only thing I see that will force higher fuel economy is for gas to get up to
around $10 a gallon. Most people have not even slowed down at $3.Over the
road trucks use alot more fuel than cars do and get alot less gas mileage. I
was told they get around 4mpg loaded! Maybe detroit could help them with gas
mileage too.

 

Most of us want higher fuel economy. If you build it, it will be sold.

Sure, lots of soccer moms ply the highways and byways of the country in
Suburbans and the like, but they would LIKE to have a Suburban that gets
better fuel economy. If they have to give up the Suburban to get the
economy, they'll pass on the economy. give them the form-factor of a
Suburban and better fuel economy, and they will beat the doors down at the
dealership to get one.

There is no "forcing" required. All you have to do is build the damn thing
and people will buy it. Maybe not everyone, but enough.

 

Over the road trucks also move a lot more material per gallon of fuel
burned than cars.

A 80,000 lb truck will move 320,000 lbs per mile per gallon of fuel
while a 3000 lb car that gets 40 mpg will move 120,000 lbs per mile per
gallon of fuel. Trucks often get high mileage, more on the order of 5 or
6 mpg.

Jeff

 

"one of the hoariest of urban myths: That forcing higher fuel economy

How much fuel do NASCAR cars burn...
How much fuel is burned by all other vehicules involved in racing, monster
trucks, dragters, etc....
Would we be ready to give up entertainement to save fuel?
About airplanes.... The NASA shuttles... etc...

 

That article's right on target.

However, for things to _really_ change, somebody's got to come up with
batteries that can be fully recharged in a matter of minutes and can go
200 miles on a single charge. The motors for hi-power all-electric cars
are here now - all that's needed is better battery technology.

Here's a taste:
http://www.teslamotors.com/
http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/
http://www.zapworld.com/electric-vehicles/electric-cars/zap-x

 

Based on your figures, we could save a lot of fuel by putting seats in those
trailers and loading up a bunch of people all going to the same place. All
we need is a good name for it and people will want to ride the new vehicle.

How about calling it the People Truck? Or the People Hauler? Or the
Omnibus? Yeah, then it would be shortened and just called the Bus.

Think it would ever work?

 

Bingo!

If I have to choose between being cramped up in a subcompact Prius or Accord
or Volt vs. being able to not have my heat touch the roof of the truck in a
Suburban I'll take the Suburban/Silverado/Yukon/F150/Ram 2500...

....until they make a car/truck that gets the kind of mileage of a Prius but
is not a matchbox in size, then I'll keep driving the large cars.

I recently got my dad's '99 Sebring. It is a fun subcompact car, but my
goodness it is small! And it only gets about 5 MPG better on the highway
than my Avalanche.

 

I already knew that the current (NHW20) Prius was classified as a mid-size
but I had to look up the other 3. The Accord and Sebring are both also
mid-size and I am not sure about the Volt but if you call mid-size cars
subcompacts then what do you consider a true subcompact like a Yaris or
Aveo? It would seem that you would probably rank them right up there with a
key slot. Along the same lines a full size would be a compact car to you.
Assuming all of this is true what would you consider to be a full size car?
Perhaps a stretch limo version of either a Crown Victoria or a Delta 88? I
am just trying to understand your post better.

 

Why do we need a battery that recharges in minutes? The question I usually
ask people who say this is imagine your gasoline car was on a completely
topped off full tank every time you get in it. How often would you have to
stop at a gas station? The answer would of course be only for the trips
longer than the range of the battery. The problem with a ~10 minute
recharge is that it would require a dedicated 400 amp 3 phase 480 volt
service drop for each charger. I can only imagine the kind of power lines
run to each charging station. They would probably look similar to these:
http://danallen46.homeunix.org/West01MtHood.jpg

My solution would simply be a standardized battery pack that could be easily
swapped by a robot arm. The larger the vehicle the more such packs the
vehicle would use so the Suburban-EV driver would still pay more than
someone in a smaller vehicle.

 

Bullshit! They're compacts like my old Maxima.

sorry - those are sardine cans. Never trust a car that is shorter than i am
tall.

Yeah, that about sums it up.

My Great Aunt had a '77 Lincoln Continental Town Coupe. That was a nice
full-size car.

I loved driving it.

Crown Vics are nice cars. The modern versions are a bit small but they'll
do. I see several Interceptor models in the parking lot where I work.

 

I'd like to see some backup of this math.

tractor trailers can haul 100,000 legally, to 108,900 legally in the
state of maine, this is slighly higher in canada up to 137500 on a
btrain, btrains get around 4mpg... up to 5 depending on the roads.

What can a diesel 1ton truck haul at 20mpg?

 

They call an impala a full size car... they are a midsize car...

a taurus is also a midsize car...

 

Put your numbers in, and you get similar results. Trucks can haul more
stuff in terms of tons of material hauled per mile per gallon of fuel
burned. You want to argue that trucks can haul a 500,000 lbs of stuff a
mile per gallon burned, go ahead. But the point is that when hauling
things, trucks are more efficient at hauling stuff than cars.

Railroads even more so.

Probably about 1 ton.

Jeff

 

Maxima was not a compact either.

But even today's fullsized lincoln is not that size anymore

And the crown vic is still a relic of years past. It and the Chrysler
300 are the only "close to full sise" full sise cars on the american
market.

 

What was a full sized car in 1949? in 1855? in 1965, 1975, 1985, 1995,
2005? The size and definition keeps changing.

Go back to the '30s. There were full sise cars and luxury cars. The
full sise were comparable to what we have today, but taller (and
narrower).

What you are looking for is not a "full sise" but a "luxury sise".

 

The reason you need a battery pack that recharges in minutes is simply
because the buying public is used to filling up in minutes.

Trying to get people to buy a new type of vehicle and asking them to
change their mindsets all in one fell swoop is a pretty tall order.
Tall enough, IMO, that they just won't go for it.

The reason why hybrids are selling now is becuase people don't have to
change anything in their habits. They just buy, drive, and fill up like
they would in an "ordinary" vehicle.

 

Very poor argument. Compared to the millions of vehicles on the road, these
use a small fraction of oil.
John

 

Wow, my Maxima easily sits 4 adults with lots of legroom. I can't put
the seat all the way back and still be able to shift either. I have yet
to find a GM that I could say that about.

b