Ford takes a dive, DC will be #2 soon

False, not all cars. Not only that, it's a very exclusive "power
train warranty." Even Hyundai has a better warrany.

They seem to be. Look at the sales figures.

You're a laugh.

GM cars lately ARE "plastic shitboxes." Look at your wife's
Potty-tank....that's a plastic shitbox if there ever was one.

 

We were talking about US BASED automarkers, the "Big 3"...idiot, who
cannot read.

Typical church nutter rightard.

 

It's called momentum or inertia. But the market forces which pushed GM
along are no longer present. They are coasting. And if new life is not
breathed into the organization, they will fail in time.

Agree 100%. I used to drive GM exclusively. Until the last 2 GMs that
I owned - a 1987 Olds Cutlass Cruiser, and a 1995 Corsica. Both were
utter garbage compared with previous GMs that I had owned. And I
agree, GMs quality was started on a downhill run in the 70s. It has
been getting progressivly worse as time goes on. I simply refuse to
own one any more - it is not worth it.

 

That is EXACTLY what happened with AT&T under Bob Allen, is happening
now to GE due to Jackass Welch's overly long tenure, and has/is
happening to any number of old-time US corporations. Once the "cash
momentum" is spent, it's down the toilet with bonuses and golden
parachutes for upper management.

In the 1971 model cycle, GM management launched their "less car for
more money" campaign, the first fruits of which were the awful 1971
full sized cars. The intermediates held on until '73 using 1968
bodies, but things were cheapened in them as well. Of course, the
first totally new car under this program was the Chevrolet Vega...and
we know how THAT turned out! Even the slap dashed Pinto from Ford was
a better car, gas tank issues (which had really plagued all Ford
products since 1961) notwithstanding. Chrysler, though, was still
turning out good, reliable cars until the mid '70s when they ran out
of money due to mismanagement and couldn't bring new models to market
fast enough.

 

I'd disagree with that- GM is having another banner year with SUV's and
full sized trucks- in China, India, and Europe.

And no one makes a better full size luxury car.

GM is still #1 in sales of units/year to this day- so your assumption
is WRONG.

And they also have 80 billion in cash reserves.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...orld_Motor_Vehicle_Production_by_Manufacturer


You obviously have not done your homework, GM is outselling Toyota by
35% in volume of units.

And GM always DID outsell Toyota- and every other Jap shitbox maker,
and every Euro maker, since day one.

GM- the best there is- submit, or be bought out.

A Ford/GM merger would be a mega-giant capable of over TWICE puny
Toyota's output.

Toyota and the other Jappers are toast.

Not to mention, GM/Ford now own Mazda, Saab, and Opel, among others.

GM OWNS the auto industry. And soon they'll buy out Toyota too- and
close the Toyota factories and retire the Toyota brand name...

That's how it's done.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...orld_Motor_Vehicle_Production_by_Manufacturer


as usual, someone didn't do their homework.

Nissan isn't even in the running, they are so small.

Chrysler would have to surpass Ford and VW to get to #3, that ain't
gonna happen.

GM kicks all their asses.

Ford is bigger than Honda and Nissan PUT TOGETHER.

So much for "taking a dive"- it's all relative- Ford can still eat any
Japper shitbox company for lunch in the corp. sense- Ford bought and
owns Mazda.

 

OMG, it's getting near the end of the month and Charlie's SSI is
running out so he's getting delirious.

I had your Power Seller status smashed while mine keeps on trucking
along, THAT'S how it's done.

 

Back in the 70s, the cars coming from Japan were junk. Poorly built,
and plagued by quality problems.

How did they survive??? Well, I guess enough people were fed up the
"the big 3" that they purchased Japanese cars. Then the Japanese
started focusing on Quality. A prudent move since they simply could
not compete with the QUANTITY of cars made by the US Auto Makers. The
QUANTITY relates to market share in any given year.

The focus on Quality is a long-term focus. It has worked. Japanese
market presense and market share has been growing as time goes buy
(pun intended). Why? The after-market speaks for itself. North
American made cars depreciate at an amazingly fast rate, while their
Japanese counterparts hold their value. Why? Because the Japanese cars
are better built and last longer - thats why. People value a car that
will last longer because this means they will not have to drop ANOTHER
$20,000 to $50,000 buying ANOTHER piece of disposable junk!

US Auto makers have this strange notion that a car should last 5
years, then you should buy a new one! Well, I don't want a perpetual
car loan to the tune of $500 or more per month, and I refuse to have a
perpetual lease payment of $400 per month so I can pay down the
depreciation on a car and own NOTHING at the end.

Honda cars, were I live, have a reputation of lasting between 400,000
and 500,000 kms before requiring any major work. The same can NOT be
said for GM.

The Japanese Auto Makers will continue to focus on quality, and if GM
does not do the same - while reigning in the EXCESSIVE cost of their
cars - then Japan will eventually dominate the market - one customer
at a time. It did not happen 10 years ago, or 5 years ago, or
yesterday, or today, not will it happen tomorrow, or even next year.
but in 5 years??? Slow and steady wins the race. GM just happens to be
a "legacy" issue for the Japanese. That is all.

I notice the penetration of the Japanese into our market all the time!
When I was a kid, there was NO such thing as a Japanese Full Size
Pick-up or SUV. Pretty much all the trucks were from the big 3. I do
not EVER recall seeing a full-size import truck back then. NOW????
There are LOTS of Toyota Tacoma trucks, Nissan Pathfinders, Toyota
Forrunners.... They are everywhere. This is a very stark contrast from
years gone by.

I have seen it happen first hand. And, having experienced the poor
quality that GM offers first hand, I have made my statement as a
consumer. I no longer buy their products. I decided on Chrylser. Not
that DC is perfect, but there seems to be good support, and I DO see
Chrylser correcting problems over time (something which I did NOT see
GM doing).

In terms of GM purchasing Toyota... you are presuming that Toyota is
for sale! If I were head of Toyota, GM would not have a bank-roll big
enough! I would view GM's attempt to purchase Toyota as a sign of
weakness - a sign that our competition was finally becoming big enough
that they wanted to put us out of business before it was "too late".
If I were the head of Toyota, I would refuse a buy out, and redouble
my efforts to produce the worlds highest quality cars for less money.
I would make every effort to devalue GM by erroding their market share
to the point where I would be the one buying THEM out. The Japanese
history is about honor and loyalty. There is no honor in a sell-out -
effectively a "surrender". I believe that Japan would rather die than
surrender.

I think the "if you can't beat'em, buy'em" attitude is a very North
American way of thinking and doing business. This is another problem
with North America - we have blinders on. We think that OUR way of
doing it is THE way. I don't think it has ever occurred to the
MBAssholes that other cultures may not do business like we do, and
hence their analysis of the competition is flawed. Probably accounts
for how our competition got a foot-hold in the first place.

As for GM "Quality" - BULL. At the present time GM pays LIP SERVICE to
Quality, that is all. Their exec's appear to believe that since they
are the biggest that they are immune from having to provide real value
for the money. That's fine. They can keep their collective heads up
their asses as long as they wish. Their ignorance of the facts does
not change the facts.

The market speaks for itself. If GM cares to listen to the market,
then it might actually survive.

 

Not completely. Early Toyota imports, such as the notoriously bad
1971 Crown and the tinny Corrola, were indeed poorly engineered for US
use, but were well assembled at a time when US cars were literally
thrown together. The early '70s Datsun 510 was well known to go over
300K miles on one engine, even with its tinny body, cheesy vinyl
"upholstery," and other tactile issues. They did some things well,
some things badly. Honda was the first of the Jappers to put it all
together in its Civics and Accords, and the others followed in short
order. By 1980, it was obvious that the Japanese were building
superior cars to the US automarkers' products, and creature comforms
and tactile features increased in quality. You have to
remember...circa 1974, carpeting wasn't installed in domestic Japanese
cars at ALL...even in Crown limousines! That's what Japanese cars up
until around that time simply had cheaply made "carpet mats" in them.
Once the Japanese caught on, though, it was all over for GM. One
thing the Jap cars did well from day one, except the Crown....fuel
economy. Sure, Toyota had lousy engines (Mitsubishi still does) and
used obsolete designs for power steering and brakes of which the
patents held by GM had run out...but they fixed all that, and more.
Our delusional shit-for-brains friend Charlie Nudo can never
understand that, because Flush Limpdick says it isn't so.

Not so fast...the Japanese are GETTING that way, too. Time was that a
Japanese car would have parts support for 20 years. No longer. I
never figure depreciation on any car, since I pay cash and hold onto
them for 20 years. I notice many Japanese cars are starting to show
signs of "just good enough" engineering now, too. To be fair, the US
cars HAVE improved in logenvity and quality since the dark days of the
'80s at GM and Ford. As my M-body suggests, though, Chrysler could
still build a car that'd last 20 years and longer.

True....I have one of the first Accords, and it's STILL going.
Unfortunately, Honda has yanked parts support for these now, so it'll
be retired soon.

While they've hit the US SUV market hard, they still cannot penetrate
the full sized truck market. Toyota's Tundra hasn't generated desired
numbers, and Honda's Ridgeline and Nissan's Frontier have turned out
to be sales bombs. However, you have remember that the entire truck
market is in decline, probably permanently. Most people now want a
more efficient and more versatile vehicle than a pickup can offer.
Back in the '70s, Nissan ate GM's lunch with their small pickups, but
no longer. The thing that's eating GM's lunch now from Japan are the
Japanese SUVs, both truck based and "crossovers." GM can't get it
through their thick skulls that efficiency matters.

Toyota has already let it leak that they have been considering a
hostile takeover of GM. GM cannot do the reverse...they are near
bankruptcy, draining all their cash reserves, and could not get the
leverage through financing to buy Toyota. Hell, they're so broke they
even had to spin off their Japanese "hedge bet," Suzuki.

This is a ham fisted response to a sucessful competitor that working
in the US, but will not work against the Japanese. Examples are all
over, but here's one: General Electric under Jackass Welch was
annoyed that various old line AC motor makers in the US were
continuing to deprive them of market domination. One quality
manufacturer was US Motors, which had been building AC motors of all
types since the 'teens. To eliminate a pesky, higher quality
manufacturer from competition, Welch order GE to buy them up in a
hostile takeover, and then promply shut them down. He also tried to
do the same thing to Century and Westinghouse to get them out of the
way. If you know some of the particulars about GE under Welch, you'll
know the asshole really belongs in prison.

True. We won the "war," but the Japanese, with their typical Oriental
long view, just saw that as a "battle." They used the US to learn
modern business and manufacturing techniques, and now are winning the
"war." However, Japanese culture is laden with hubris and
preoccupation with "winning." The Chinese are much smarter and will
win in the long run, mark my word. By that time, the US will be part
of the third world.

See above.

I think it's too late for them AND Ford. GM was built in the Sloan
years to be almost a monopolistic technology company built around
internal combustion, what with Detroit Diesel, Allison, EMD and every
conceivable line of vehicles of all types that used engines of all
types. In a fit of panic, Roger Smith divested a lot of those various
divisions that weren't directly related to making cars. Sloan knew
back in the '30s that having such diversity would "float all boats,"
and keep marginal divisions afloat during tough times. GM no longer
has that "cushion." Smith tried to get rid of EMD as well, but EMD
has already failed on its own, unable to best GE in both price and
fuel efficiency, as well as the same trick GM used in the '40s to get
to be #1 in the locomotive market...easy financing. EMD's La Grande,
IL plant now only makes parts and is mostly dormant, with locomotive
manufacturing only taking place in Canada, in London, ON. ALL EMD
locomotives, thus, are "imports."

Eat that, Charlie Nudo!

 

Typical dulsusions form another right wing fucktard...Charlie Nudo.

GM sales in both those countries are in the HUNDREDS of UNITS.

 

Yup! Come on, first of the month! He'll get his SSI check and some
meds, and we'll have some peace again...until around the 15th. LOL

He had 15 or more Google Groups accounts smashed and we keep on
truckin' along...THAT'S how it's done, too.

 

As usual, Charlie Nudo of Drums, PA only uses sources that back his
erroneous position. Wikipedia is for chumps like you, Noodles, since
all the contributors are morons like yourself.

Next time, get a REAL source. Read Bloomberg's or the WSJ, if you
want to talk about business, or the NY or LA Times Biz sections.

 

yeh, Ford really "took a dive"- they own Aston Martin-Jaguar-Land
Rover-and Volvo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...orld_Motor_Vehicle_Production_by_Manufacturer

3. Ford Motor Company (United States) - 6,418,416 vehicles
Aston Martin United Kingdom Subsidiary Luxury / Performance Global
Ford Motor Company United States Division Mainstream Global
Jaguar United Kingdom Subsidiary Luxury Europe/North America
Land Rover United Kingdom Subsidiary Luxury Truck Global
Lincoln United States Division Luxury North America
Mercury United States Division Near-Luxury North America
Volvo Cars Sweden Subsidiary Near-Luxury Europe/North America


Go USA !

 

still riding around in that embarassing box-shaped # 7 Honda-made car ?

move up to #1, GM- the best there is !

oh, that's right, you have no money...and can't afford a GM
sorry to hear that...

(laughter...)

 

So true. Even the inferior Mercedes cruise control has crept into recent
Chrysler vehicles.

Interesting thought. So the buyers feel they are "foreign" and OK?

However recent news shows Chrysler taking a financial hit this year due
to their large gas eating vehicles. Even the 300 line is being partially
shut down this fall.

 

Why would GM care of listen to your advice ?? So they can be #2 or
lower like Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Mazda ?

The sales numbers speak for themselves- GM rules, and is #1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...orld_Motor_Vehicle_Production_by_Manufacturer

You're like a sportscaster that is mistakenly saying, the losing team
won.

GM is #1

The the Big Three have 3 of the top 6 spots.

GM owns Daewoo-Holden-Opel-Saab-and Vauxhall- in addition to its
Buick-Pontiac-Caddy-Chevy-GMC lines, and more recent Saturn-Hummer
divisions

You can argue with SUCCESS, and MARKET DOMINATION.

Marque Country of Origin Ownership Type of vehicle Main market
1. General Motors (United States) - 9,040,309 vehicles
Buick United States Division Near-luxury North America
Cadillac United States Division Luxury North America / Europe
Chevrolet United States Division Mainstream North America
Daewoo Korea Subsidiary Entry-level Asia / Europe (as Chevrolet)
GMC United States Division Truck North America
Holden Australia Subsidiary Mainstream Australia
Hummer United States Division Luxury Truck North America / Europe
Oldsmobile (defunct) United States Division Mainstream / Near-luxury
North America
Opel Germany Subsidiary Mainstream Continental Europe
Pontiac United States Division Performance North America
Saturn United States Division Entry-level North America
Saab Automobile Sweden Subsidiary Near-luxury Europe/North America
Vauxhall United Kingdom Subsidiary Mainstream United Kingdom

 

The 300 is suffering from two major problems...tiny cabin space and
adoption by "ghettoids" as a ghetto ride, both of which are causing
high depreciation and are slowing sales. Both aren't doing DC any
good at all, people who want 5 passenger room look at the Ford 500,
although sales of that aren't that good at all.

 

Ford's desperate to find a buyer for Jag and the others...they are
bleeding red ink worse than US operations.

 

Charlie Nudo keeps telling people to move up to GM but what he fails to
mention is he hasn't moved up to ANYTHING. His GM buying consists of
his wifes 12 year old Pontiac. His moving up it TOTAL BULLSHIT! He
can't afford ANY new car, he drives around in a beat-up old Ford
pick-up.