Fiat turns to natural gas as Toyota, GM go electric

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Rob, Dec 6, 2010.

  1. Rob

    Rob Guest

    December 5, 2010 - 8: 37 am ET

    DETROIT (Bloomberg) -- As Sergio Marchionne brings back Fiat SpA to the U.
    S.
    after nearly three decades, he may add another Italian speciality: the
    natural gas engine.

    Marchionne, who is CEO of Fiat and Chrysler Group LLC, says natural gas
    engines offer a better way to cut emissions because they’re cheaper than
    competing technologies. He also argues electric cars, which General Motors
    Co. and Toyota Motor Corp. are betting on, present “too many obstacles” such
    as the recharge time for batteries.

    “Natural gas is very suitable for the U. S. , ” Constantinos Vafidis, who
    oversees transmission and hybrid development at Fiat’s research center in
    Turin, Italy, said in an interview. “Especially for public services and
    goods transportation, where vehicles are refueled from a central base. ”

    Fiat is the market leader in Europe in natural-gas engines, with an 80
    percent share of methane-powered cars and 55 percent of light commercial
    vehicles. Bolstering Marchionne’s view, the U. S. has the natural-gas supply
    for the engines after becoming the world’s largest producer last year.

    “Fiat will use its technological leadership in natural gas, in a region
    discovered to have huge reserves, ” said Giuliano Noci, a professor at the
    MIP management school of Milan’s Polytechnic university. “It’s almost a
    mandatory strategy. Fiat should lead the natural-gas car market as it’s far
    behind in the electric vehicle sector. ”

    'More affordable solution'

    Natural gas is a “more affordable solution” as it’s less expensive to
    produce, transport and distribute compared with other fuel sources, Alfredo
    Altavilla, who heads Fiat’s Iveco truck unit, said in September. The
    additional cost for an engine using natural gas is $3, 000, compared with
    $3, 300 for diesel and $8, 000 for an electric hybrid, he said.

    Fiat sold 127, 000 methane-powered cars in Europe last year, including
    versions of the Panda compact and Ducato van, helped by government
    incentives. The U. S. last year overtook Russia as the world’s largest
    producer of natural gas, as output of gas trapped in shale rock rose to 10
    percent of total U. S. supplies from 2 percent in 1990.

    “We’ve had contact with the U. S. and Canadian governments, ” said Lucio
    Bernard, director of Fiat Powertrain. The two countries have become more
    interested “after the recent discoveries of shale-gas reserves in the
    region. ”

    Sales goal

    While Italy’s natural-gas vehicle market is one of the most robust in the
    world, with more than 800 fueling stations across the country, the market is
    still in its infancy in the U. S. GM just began selling vehicles with
    natural-gas engines in the country this year for fleet buyers. Honda Motor
    Co. is currently the only automaker selling cars with compressed natural gas
    engines to retail customers in the U. S.

    Fiat and Chrysler, which is joining the natural-gas vehicles association in
    Washington, are currently studying whether to sell natural-gas vehicles in
    the U. S. , the two carmakers said. Fiat will re-enter the U. S. next year,
    and
    targets sales of 50, 000 of the 500 compact in the market.

    “We’re always looking at alternative propulsion systems and how to reduce
    our dependency on foreign oil, so this is one thing we are looking at, ”
    Chrysler spokesman Vince Muniga said.

    GM and Toyota are focusing on hybrid electric vehicles as their alternative
    to conventional gasoline engines. Detroit- based GM started production of
    the $41, 000 gasoline-electric Chevrolet Volt Nov. 30 and forecasts sales of
    10, 000 of the cars next year and 45, 000 in 2012.

    Refueling stations

    Toyota is the maker of the world’s first mass-produced hybrid car, the
    Prius, which went on sale more than a decade ago. Chrysler is also
    developing an electric version of the Fiat 500 to begin selling in the U. S.
    in 2012 for city driving.

    While recharging stations for electric-car batteries present an
    infrastructure challenge, locations for refueling natural gas vehicles are
    also limited. There are 1, 300 stations in the U. S. for the 110, 000
    vehicles
    using natural gas, the International Association for Natural Gas Vehicles
    said. That compares with 160, 000 gasoline stations, the Petroleum Marketers
    Association of America said.

    The lack of methane fueling stations in the U. S. has limited these vehicles
    primarily to government and corporate fleets that can return to a central
    location to refill.

    "That is where the industry is primarily putting its emphasis right now, ”
    said Richard Kolodziej, president of Natural Gas Vehicles for America.
    Natural gas is about $1 less on average than a gallon of gasoline, he said.

    Targeting trucks

    Marchionne, who plans to raise Fiat's Chrysler stake to 35 percent by the
    end of 2011 from 20 percent, last year separated the Ram and Dodge brands to
    create a standalone truck unit. His five-year plan for Chrysler includes
    bringing large- and small-commercial vans to the U. S. in 2012 under the Ram
    brand based on Fiat’s trucks platforms.

    “That gives them the freedom to introduce Iveco products into the Chrysler
    lineup, ” said Phil Gott, an IHS Automotive analyst in Lexington, Mass. “The
    target customer would be the heavy duty fleets, they could cut their fuel
    costs in about half, ” he said of natural gas engines.

    The U. S. currently ranks 14th in the world in sales of natural gas
    vehicles,
    while Italy is sixth, according to the International Association for Natural
    Gas Vehicles. Pakistan ranks No. 1 with 2. 3 million vehicles and 3, 068
    fueling stations. Marchionne hopes to boost the U. S. figure.

    “Fiat’s technological leadership in compressed natural gas in Europe is a
    key asset for the U. S. natural gas-vehicle market, ” the CEO said last
    week.
     
    Rob, Dec 6, 2010
    #1
  2. Why all the fascination over CNG? Why not just use Propane (LPG), it is a
    very proven fuel and is easily put in liquid form hence it is more energy
    dense than methane which is compressed but still gaseous not liquified?

    I regularly operate a 1950s Farmall 450 LP tractor and can tell you that LP
    is a great fuel. Once the engine fires, even in sub freezing temperatures
    (which it will if it will crank and has spark) it continues to run. There
    is no sputtering and stalling like a cold carbureted gasoline engine. It
    does however require that the liquid temp is above about -12° Fahrenheit as
    the secondary regulator in the vaporizer needs about 15 PSI at its inlet and
    per a P/T chart -12 corresponds to about 15 PSI, and even that limitation
    could be overcome with a simple fuel pump.

    The fill port on the 450's tank is also the same one that is used on a big
    tank such as the one for a house so refueling isn't a problem, although
    training of the attendants at the propane suppliers probably would be.
     
    Daniel who wants to know, Dec 6, 2010
    #2
  3. And you can bet your bottom dollar that when the use of CNG (or propane,
    for that matter) becomes significant, the various gubbermints will tax
    it, perhaps eliminating much of any cost advantages: roads have to be
    paid for. I can imagine that such motor vehicles would have fill ports
    different from those used for a house tank, and a tax could be levied on
    fuel supplied from the appropriate dispensing facilities.

    Perce
     
    Percival P. Cassidy, Dec 6, 2010
    #3
  4. Rob

    NotMe Guest

    The problem with LPG (Liquid Patralium Gas) is the source. Prices and
    avaiabilty goes up and down with the price of oil. Not to mention that for
    the most part LPG is much more expensive than NG per BTU.
     
    NotMe, Dec 7, 2010
    #4
  5. Rob

    NotMe Guest

    Already is in Texas and several other states.
     
    NotMe, Dec 7, 2010
    #5
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