Expensive Air job (not fixed) still

Hi people, I just wanted to share my expensive air conditioning job I paid
for and had done at a (Five Star) Chrysler Dealership. This started in June
2003, I had no air working in my 1994 Plymouth Voyager, this van looks like
brand new inside and out with just 48,000 miles on it, it's my baby. Well I
thought the mechanics fixed it, I paid over $1,300.00 for the parts and labor.
When I went to pick my van up I almost dropped dead when I looked at the
inside and outside of my vechicle, there was grease all over the seats and
carpet and on the head liner too. The exterior of it had chips nicked out,
and black over spray was all over the passanger side of the van. I complained
and the manager had me leave it over night so they could clean it up. There
was more said and done but it would take way to long to tell all of it so
I'll tell ya what happened next. In 2004 I turned on the air and guess what?
no air again. This time I took it to another dealer to have it looked at and
fixed without paying. It was still under warranty TG. I get a call from the
other deal and they tell me we can't fix your van because it has a
aftermarket part on it from this first dealer I took it to and I'd have to
take it back there. Oh man! So I took it back again and the owner denied it
was an aftermarket part (of course) that didn't surprise me. So I left it and
when it was fixed I went to pick it up and guess what? While me and the owner
had the hood up and it was running with the air on I heard a loud hissing
sound and the refrigerant was leaking out right there in front of us. So now
I had to leave it once again. And mind you, the owner has never once offered
me a loaner car knowing I had a ways to drive back and forth to take my van
there. So it gets pretty annoying now, I picked it up and the air worked fine
until June 2005. I took it in last year again and had to pay 69.95 to have it
looked at and on the next day the dealer called me and stated what was wrong
with it and the cost ($900.00) for the same parts I paid in 2003 to be
replaced. When I got to the dealer I took the estimate right inside to the
owner, sat down in his office with him and was in tears at this point, he
refunded my $69.95 and said he would find a way to write-off the costs to fix
my van so I left it there again. Now you won't believe it I have NO air again
in 2006. I called Chrysler Corporate Headquarters and complained and I was
told to take it back to this same dealer and they would have STAR Techs get
involved to resolve this matter now. Does anyone know what STAR is and who do
they work for? Are they a mediation group or what? I feel I should be paid
now for 4 years of hell I've been put through with this dealship. And I
forgot to mention that the people who work there are not very compationate
and are very rude to women. If you have any tips to pass on please do so?

 

You have a vehicle that is 12 years old. Are all your problems related to
leaks???? If the system has deteriorate and you replace one part, the next
part that is weakest may leak especially when ambient temperatures go up.
You have not mentioned anywhere in this post what was done except the one
time you heard a hissing noise.
If it is due to leaks a dye test would have shown the leaks, was that ever
performed?
STAR is more or less an input for data that builds up over time, they are
suppose to be actual technicians with a little mechanical ability to assist
with problems.Basically if they cant give you an answer they refer you to a
problem that may have been fixed similar to the one you are having.

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

Everything was replaced on the air cond. system except for the hoses. Yes I
had more than one dye test performed that's how the techs knew what was wrong
and fixed it, but like I stated it didn't last for long, this is an every
year occurance and has become a nuisance. It should have been fixed properly
the first time.

 

This sounds pretty bad. You might want to look up mechanics that treat
women politely. www.Cartalk.com has some. There may be others. Rudeness
is usually sign of incompetent and/or dishonest workers, be it
mechanics or anyone else.

Leaving your van a mess is a sure sign that the repairs were too
complicated for them to do properly. They just may be a bit stupid. It
happens. One dealership in Newport, Rhode Island I would call close to
certifiable morons. A rich place with very angry, very incompetent
mechanics. But they did not care since there were many millionaires
around there who could care less about repairs that were pennies to
them.

old van. Why? First it's going to be a big problem with vans where many
things can go wrong after 12 years. Also, their mechanics may not be up
to speed on vans from 1994. I definitely sense this from the dealers
near me. They are good but they really don't want to mess with my 1994
van. In fact, they refused to do some repairs because things will go
wrong and they are afraid to be liable. So I look into independent
mechanics or even private mechanics who work out of their own places. I
ask around.

About your problems, I don't know where you live but you need to look
up the statute of limitations. Where I live, it's only two years
although that starts counting from when the problems began, which could
be two years ago. Sometimes you can take them to small claims court.
You'll need to do a little research and get at least one independent
mechanic to certify that they caused so much in repairs for
incompetence.

If they mess up again, you might want to do what one fellow did near
me. He picketed the place. Even got an article in the local newspaper.
I can see it now. Chrysler is discriminating against women. Chrysler is
cruel to women. Chrysler does not depend on its products and stand
behind them. Chrysler is rude, crude, and dirty. Chrysler is the
anti-Christ. Daim Chrysler! Be creative Or cry some more. It worked
the first time and it's certainly not confrontational as my
suggestions.

My air-conditioning just went south yesterday in my 1994 Voyager. I
guess I won't be asking my favorite Five Star Dealer to fix it after
reading your post. It's a bummer. I don't have power windows so roll
up, roll down, roll up, roll down...

I gather you did not need a shot of freon? Are you sure that they did
not cheat you in this regard? I realize there are seals but the first
course of action is a shot of refrigerant, is it not? Something may be
really wrong here. You need to check for outright fraud, then
incompetence, and finally, bad luck, but a dirty van is a very bad sign
that these are dirty people.

 

I have never had a lot of luck with dealerships. My borther used to
work at one that basically was ripping people off. You bring in your
car for an oil change and they would use your car for delivery and
pick-up runs that day, and never bother doing the oil change! And some
of the guys driving the cars were racing with them....

Like I said my borther USED to work there. He left in total disgust.

I believe it is true, dealers are way more interested in selling you a
new minivan than fixing your old one! In their eyes, that old van is
costing them profit! HOW DARE YOU drive a 12 year old car! Cars are
only supposed to last 5 years! Didn't you know???? If they jack you
around enough, and blame it on your "old" van, then you are much more
likely to buy something new or at least newer! And if they figure you
are a woman who knows nothing about cars, then you would trust them,
right?

I have a 94 Grand Caravan with over 180,000 km on it. I love it. I
gave up on the body a long time ago! It seems like every time I come
out of a store, there are 3 or 4 more dents in it! People just don't
give a shit about other peoples property! I was going to get the dents
fixed, but by the time I got around to it, my van looks like a war
zone! So, as much as it pains me, why bother? If I get it fixed, some
asshole with a big farm truck will just park beside it and trash the
$2000 that a decent paint job and prep will cost me.

I did have some minor A/C problems on my van. The first year, I got it
recharged. That lasted about a year. Then it did not work, so I
thought "another recharge???". Well, no. Initially my shop told me
compressor - $1200. But as they examined the system, they found the
pressures were all "off" despite what appeared to be close to a full
charge of refrigerant! It turned out to be a part that is in the
system that is used to remove moisture from the system - a "dessicant"
canister. It was completely clogged and would not allow refigerant to
pass through it!. So... Evacuate the system. Replaced all seals and
the dessicant canister, use the dye test to check entire system for
leaks - all AOK. Do a full evaucation and recharge of the refrigerant!
About $300 IIRC. That was 2 years ago, and the system is still
working! ))

What this boils down to - to me at least - is a combination of fraud
and incompetence on the part of the dealership. They could care less
about you, and see you as a woman with a checkbook - hopefully a big
enough checkbook to buy a new van!

I take my van to an independant shop. I found out about them strictly
by "word of mouth" from a woman who got treated well their. She was
literally a Blonde with a Checkbook. And they never took her for a
single penny. She was a single mom with bad finances, and they even
allowed her to make payments on her repair work so she could have her
car to get to work and look after her daughter! This shop has had MANY
opportunities to take me for a lot of dollars, and - true to form -
has NOT done so! They get almost all my busines! And, believe me, I
tell ALL my friends about them. Oh yeah, locally one of the local
papers runs a "best of..." reader poll. Readers nominate things like
the best chinese food restaurant, the best jewelry store, the best....
auto service shop! When I first went in I noticed this shop took the
"Readers Choice Award" year, after year, after year! I have NEVER seen
them advertise. The don't have to! They are ALWAYS busy. Small wonder
why! ))

Let this be your last transaction with a dealer. Look around. Ask
people. Check with the Better Business Bureau! Start hunting for a
shop. Keep looking until you find one that you like, and then stick
with them. IME, you will be way better off in the long run.

Now for a few things, you usually want to consider specialty shops.
Transmission work is one case. And A/C is another. It just so happens
my shop as a competant A/C technician. But failing that, I have in the
past gone to shops that specialize in A/C service and repairs. Check
the yellow pages and the BBB. Ditch the dealer. Get a qualified shop
to fix it once and for all, then sue the dealer in small claims for
the cost of getting it fixed right, plus money for your pain,
suffering, and inconvenience! And while you are at it, how about
sueing them for the cost of a new paint job! The van was in perfect
condition before they got their paws on it, so why should YOU suffer
as a result of the dealers incompitance? Get the specialty shop to
write you a report that you can use in court. Their "expert" opinion
should be sufficient

Good luck.

 

Thats right newman! All dealers are crooks and cheats! Christ your such a
moron. You managed to declare ALL dealers are Crooks and Cheats. And also
screw all women around! You also stated everyone has no respect for other
peoples property. Also astated a Farmer will beat the shit out of your van
by parking beside. Lets face it! you drive a 13 year old van because you are
a loser with no job, and collect welfare and probably disability pension,
for a fraudulent injury. A typical lazy SOB that thinks he knows it all. Yet
still stupid enought to claim a dealer can claim a write off on a vehicle he
has to resale. NEWMAN you know nothing about the situation. The fucking
broad can't evan replay as to what was done to the van. Claims they replaced
everything on the A/C system! Really is that why it was less then $2,000 to
fix! replacing everything in an A/C/ system is a hell of a lot more then
$2000.

And good story about a new car dealership using customer cars for
deliveries. You are so full of shit it is obvious! Newman, check should be
coming in this week, you can hit the Beer store, and LCBO and have a good
week in your drunken stupor!

 

SO who pissed on your cornflakes this morning???

I said I have not had good luck with dealers. And, yes, where I live
there are certain dealers that ARE crooks. Just because I had bad
experiences with dealers does not mean everone will, nor does it make
them ALL crooks. Please do not put words in my mouth.

Takes one to know one.

See above.

That is certainly how it seems. When I look at my van, as well as
other cars, and how people behave in parking lots, etc... I see a
great deal of disrespect for others property. This does not mean
everyone - just the majority of people observed first hand.

Again, just my experience and observations. I recall a guy with a
corvettee parking in the farthest corner of a parking lot where there
was not a car for 300 yards. A large farm truck drove in, parked right
beside him, and proceeded to open the door on the car - severely
chipping the paint.

It happens, and I saw it first hand.

I have also seen assholes driving big 4x4s do the same thing to my van
and other cars as well.

Actually I am a licensed "professional" making fair coin and driving a
12 year old van because I would rather save for a HOUSE than drive a
new(er) car! What the hell would YOU know about it?

A dealer CAN write down the depreciation - not the total cost of the
car. If the car is worth $40,000 new, and depreciates by, say $10,000,
then the dealer CAN write of at least a portion of the $10,000
depreciateion. If they then sell the vehicle for, say $33,000, then
they are ahead. If they sell it for LESS than $30,000, then they can
write down the balance of the depreciation. This is how it can be done
- at least here in Canada.

I grant you, a complete system replacement would indeed be more than
$2000! First thing you appear to have be right on so far.

What the hell would YOU know of my experiences and the experiences of
my immediate family???? I am telling you things that HAVE happened. I
do not have time to engage in fiction.

I have a bottle of Scotch in the cabiniet. Been there 5 years, and
still 90% full. As a rule, I don't drink alcohol. And I absolutely
HATE beer. The stuff looks and smells like horse urine to me, and it
is WAY too bitter. I suppose you have aquired a taste for it though.

I think you better cut back on that crack you been dropping. It is
affecting your ability to think rationally.

Advice offered here is free of charge. It is based on my personal
experiences and comes with no guarantee of fitness for a particular
use. Things are different from place to place. I sincerely hope others
have had better times of it than I have. But - just in case - I hope
that my experiences may help others.

If you find my advice useful, then take it. If you don't, then c'est
la vie. YMMV.

 

I'm glad you mentioned that. I noticed that happening to my van too. So
I just always park a spot or two away from the others as a rule.
Sometimes a good distance and use that for exercise. Since giving up on
getting the closest spot, I have not noticed any new, unexplained
dings. When I'm around SUVs and trucks in the parking lot, I am also
more aware that they may not take care of where they are going.

 

Sure, this happens, but so does this: somebody in a Vette or BMW who
parks their car diagonally across two parking spots to try to keep
anyone from parking beside them. I've seen this in lots that were full
or nearly full. Gives me great pleasure to park my 12 year old Chevy
pickup 6" from their front fender and watch them try to turn the wheels
enough to pull out. Who knows, maybe this Vette driver pulled this
stunt earlier and the farmer couldn't find a parking spot because the
Vette guy was hogging two of them.

Matt

 

=----

 

Actually, the vette driver I saw parked diagonally across 3 spots.
Having said that, the parking lot was about 60% empty at the time. So
it really made no difference in that case. But the farm truck parked
perfectly parallel to the vette - diagonnaly across 3 parking spaces!
lol.

I had it in with a woman at work once. We have assigned parking, and
she parks on my left. There is no one assigned to park to my right.
She had a bug Forerunner and kept parking too close to me. I had a
bitch of a time trying to open my door without hitting her. So I kept
parking a little farther away each day. But I get in first, so when I
come out, she was parked PRECISELY the same distance away from me no
matter how far away I parked! I even parked 3/4 into the next spot one
day and she STILL did it. I chewed her out for it. Obviously she was
looking at my van and NOT the parking stall lines. After I chewed her
out, she finally smartened up and paid attention to HER STALL. I was
so tempted just to decorate her passenger doors. But, that would make
me no better than all the rest, and I still had to work with her.

I guess "common courtesy" is not so common after all.

 

That explains it then. He was simply responding to the Vette driver's
arrogance. I'll admit I have no tolerance for folks in fancy cars who
purposefully take up more than one space. I don't care how far away
they park. There is no need to take more than one space. If they park
in an empty corner and the lot never gets full, then it is highly
unlikely that anyone will park beside them, so taking up two or three
spaces makes no sense. And if the lot does get full, then their
arrogance has cost someone else a place to park and they deserve a ding
in the door.

Matt

 

I am not convinced that most people deserve a ding in the door.
Accidents can happen, but in general, no.

I got a good chuckle when the farm truck parked next to the vette. I
thought that he desrved THAT as a message. But when the farm truck
parked SO CLOSE that he could not help but damage the other vehicle
when it was ABSOLUTELY UNNECCESSARY - THAT pissed me off.

In todays parking lots that make spots designed for turbo fireflys
when most of us still drive vans, trucks, and mid-sized sedans, you
are going to get close. And sometimes it is near impossible. This is
unfortunate, but understandable. But when someone goes out of their
way to do something stupid....???? <sigh>

Show some respect people! It costs you nothing but a little
forethought to show some respect. Doesn't sound like too much to ask
to me - too much to expect perhaps, but not too much to ask.

 

I will key a car parked that way every damn time. If you are so worried then
park in the back of the lot. I have keyed dozens of cars for this since it
is so completely rude and selfish. Once again, if you dont want dings in
your shiny new depreciation machine then park in the back.

 

I'm not advocating intentionally damaging another's vehicle. However,
anyone who intentionally parks so as to take up two or three spaces
should have their car towed, in my opinion. And you can usually tell
intentional from accidental as intentional is as you described earlier -
a sports car parked in the corner of a lot at a diagonal to take up at
least two spaces.


Matt

 

I won't intentionally damage someone else's vehicle, but I may park my
old pickup so close that they can't get into theirs.


Matt

 

What for? She claims she's not paid one penny since 2003. Right?

Anyway, the short answer is that if you're not a millinonaire, you shouldn't
be getting repairs made at a dealer. You need to get to know some folks that
have to live and die by word-of-mouth. There are generally honest
independents in any town who specialize in A/C.

 

Yes. Auto A/C does not last forever. It is not uncommon for it to do this
sort of
thing in an older vehicle. Most people simply keep adding refrigerant, they
buy the
refrigerant cans from the auto parts place for about $5.

I do my own A/C work since it is so expensive to have someone do it. And in
my opinion you originally had a leak most likely from the compressor shaft
seal.
They all leak after time, this is a very difficult area to seal just by
design. What
probably happened is they put in a reman compressor. Reman compressors do
not last as long as the original. 3 years is about average, and really good
reman
may last 5 years but it's hard to find really good remans. A brand new
compressor
only lasts about 10 years or so.

AC hoses also cannot be expected to last more than a decade either. What
happens is over time the rubber in the hose gets hard. Then the rubber
cracks
at the transition from the rubber hose to the aluminum metal fitting and it
leaks.
There is nothing that can be done to stop this since it's underhood heat
that
makes the rubber hose get hard.

It would be a lot better if auto A/C systems used a sealed compressor like
a home system or refrigerator uses. Such a sealed compressor is powered
by electricity. But you would have to have a separate alternator on the
engine to just make power for the compressor. So automakers instead just
drive the compressor off of the crankshaft. As a result you cannot seal the
compressor that well since a spinning shaft has to go into the compressor
from
the outside. In a home system, only wires that don't move go from the
outside
to the inside of the compressor.

There is only one way to get your system renewed to the point that it would
last another 10 years. And that would be to replace every active part in
the system, accumulator, compressor, etc. with brand new parts, remove and
replace every O-ring at every joint, flush out all metal A/C lines, replace
all
rubber lines And that would be cost-prohibitive. And you have no guarentee
it would work since the metal lines in the vehicle are all 10 years old and
at
any point one could crack due to metal fatigue due to age. So to really do
it would mean replacing all metal lines and the evaporator and condensor
too. Replacing the evap means tearing apart the dash. Your looking at
at probably a $5,000 job to do all that. That is why nobody does this,
espically on a vehicle with a book of probably $2000-$3000 max.

A $1200 A/C job is going to get you just the parts that are broken and
leaking, replaced. And the only reasonable expectation anyone can have
if you do this kind of repair is that it will last 1-2 years, anything
beyond that
is found money and your lucky. That is why so many older cars have
busted A/C. And it is also usually why A/C work is at max warranted for
a year.

Ted

 

I don't like arrogance either, but I hope you get caught doing that some
day and get thrown in jail. How is your keying a car any different than
someone who doesn't like SUV's slicing the tires on Hum V's sitting on a
dealer's lot, or burning down the delaership? Talk about arrogance,
brother - you have it in spades.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Hi...

Can't help thinking that if the right people catch him doing it,
being thrown in jail might be a blessing

Take care.

Ken