Dodge Intrepid (99) battery recommendations

Well my Intrepid is now 5.5 years old already(!) and I'm still humming
away on the original battery. In the chilly northeast, so the summers
aren't hard on the battery and it's given me no problems so far. I
don't want to be stranded in the winter though, so I'm considering
replacing it now. When I leave the headlights on during engine
starting they don't seem to dim unusually, but I haven't done any real
battery testing since the battery is no fun to get to.

My car is equipped with the factory cold weather group, which includes a
battery warmer that is on the same circuit as the block heater. It
wraps around the side of the battery and fits snug. I plug in when it
gets really cold out 2 hours before I start and it seems to help a lot,
but that only helps when I'm at home.

So are there any suggestions as to what battery would be best for me?
(I believe the Group Size is #34 and I have the 3.2L engine). I don't
think I want to go with the Optima because it had a different size that
I'm not sure would work well with the heater.

Costco has a decent house brand battery "Kirkland Signature" although
with dual top/side lugs that I don't need, the Intrepid uses the top.
As far as I can tell it's a Johnson Control battery. Anything I should
look for?

Thanks!

 

If you mean a hydrometer (electrolyte) test, then you're right, but if
you mean a load test, Greg, then of course you have the pos. and neg.
jump nodes readily accessible just by opening the hood - and you may
already know about that.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

I'd keep humming on the old battery. My 99 300M was purchased end of 1998
and still has original battery even in hot NC. I had a 94 LHS and that
battery lasted a long time too and went elegantly with plenty of warning.
Every other brand battery I've owned died sooner and suddenly.

 

Some auto parts stores have a battery load tester behind the counter
that will tell you how far gone the battery is. Older batteries will not
supply as high a CCA, and they get worse as they approach the end
of life.

I always get the highest CCA battery that I can find for the cheapest price.

Just about all car batteries are made by a handful of
battery manufacturers who hang whatever brand is needed on the battery
then OEM it to whomever.

Here's a site you might be interested in:

http://www.batteryfaq.org

Ted

 

I've had terriffic performance from Die Hard Gold. The worst I've
encountered is Interstate. I've had 4 of them fail suddenly and very
prematurely (1.5 to 2.5 years) with the terminals breaking off internally.
Larry

 

The key to getting a good battery is to get one that is fresh. There is a
time code on each battery. Get one that is only out of the factory for a
month or two. Best to leave on the shelf one that has collected lots of
dust.

Richard.

 

There's an interesting web site http://www.autobatteries.com/ At first it
seems like a general information site ("consumer power resource") that
includes links to different makes. Actually it's run by Johnson Controls, so
it's safe to assume that all battery models listed are JCI makes. Sears
Diehard Gold, Silver, and Weatherhandler all appear on that site. It also
makes it easy to compare different private labels by looking at the specs.
Nothing wrong with JCI batteries though.

 

The key to getting a good battery is to get an Optima.

 

Would do, if they listed one for my wife's '99 300m.

Gramps

 

Jim - Don't be shackled by the lack of a listing - this isn't rocket
science. Get the Optima Model 34 (Optima P/N 8002-002). Should be able
to buy for right at $100. (According to knowledgeable people on the 300M
ezBoard, the dual terminal Optima will also work fine in the M, but you
pay slightly more money for slightly less capacity. The 34 is the
better bang for the buck - it has side terminals only - and that's what
you need.)

There's only one precaution in installling them on the LH vehicles: The
battery hold-down on the LH cars is wider than most, and the terminals
on the Optima are closer together than on your typical battery. You
should therefore bias the location of the battery slightly off-center so
that the negative terminal is closer to the hold-down than is the
positive terminal (to ensure that the positive terminal doesn't short to
it - no problem if neg. terminal contacts it). The hold-down is very
firm, so there's no concern for the battery shifting on you and shorting
out against the hold-down.

If you want more detail on the above info., including photos of the
installation, read my post on www.dodgeintrepid.net:
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15904&page=1&pp=15&highlight=optima+transfusion
(note that that post and the photos are about my '99 Concorde -
Intrepid, 300M, & Concorde are identical in many areas, including the
battery compartment.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

I'm taking some mild interest in this thread, as the battery in my
'2000 300M must be nearing the end of it's life (it will be 5 years
old this november).

I don't necessarily believe that the Optima line of batteries is the
"best" from an energy density point of view (the spiral design does
not make the best use of the available rectangular exterior envelope
compared to conventional battery construction). It might very well be
that shelf-life was the over-riding design criteria for this battery.
Shelf life is probably _the_ most important issue for retailers.

Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) and reserve capacity are probably the two
most important numbers to look at when selecting a battery since other
objective criteria, like MTBF, accelerated life tests (vibration and
temperature extremes) are not readily available to compare across
manufacturers. Unlike many other types of consumer products (digital
cameras, car tires, many electronic product, etc) there are no
third-party-operated web sites that track, organize, and tabulate the
experience of consumers when it comes to car batteries, let alone take
the batteries apart and make subjective comparisons between
manufacturers (as has been done with oil filters for example).

This web site:

http://www.bgsoflex.com/cca.htm

will give you the CCA number given engine size and # of cylinders as
inputs. For example, a 3.5L V-6 (214 cubic inches) gives a computed
CCA of 285.

It is generally the consensus that you should NOT sacrifice reserve
capacity for the sake of having a large CCA. For example, if I had
the choice between the following batteries:

A) 400 CCA and 120 minutes reserve capacity
B) 800 CCA and 90 minutes reserve capacity

Then it seems that battery (A) will, in the long run, be a better
choice because I'm not likely to ever need more than 400 CCA while on
the other hand the extra 30 minutes of reserve capacity may actually
be needed at some point. In other words, batteries can never convert
un-needed CCA's into extra reserve minutes.

One thing must always be kept in mind. Once you choose a battery make
and model, buy the "freshest" battery in store (which, it seems, will
not necessarily be on the battery rack but instead in the back room).

I found the following web site to have useful battery information:

http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/

And particulary these pages:

http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/batbrand.htm

http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq7.htm#rc

This paragraph is interesting:

----------
7.6. Freshness

Lead-acid batteries are perishable and sulfate in storage due to their
natural self discharge. Please see Section 16 for more information on
sulfation.

Determining the "freshness" of a battery is sometimes difficult.
Unless it has been periodically recharged or "dry charged", NEVER buy
a wet Standard (Sb/Sb) or Low Maintenance (Sb/Ca) battery that is MORE
than three months old or a wet Maintenance Free (Ca/Ca) battery that
is MORE than six months old. Dry charged batteries are shipped without
electrolyte, but usually have "sell by" dates of one to three years.
Depending on the temperature, AGM and Gel Cell batteries that can be
stored six to 18 months before the State-of-Charge drops below 80%.
Please see Section 16. for more information on sulfation. Dealers will
place their older batteries in storage racks so they will sell first
and they do not have to maintain them. The fresher batteries can be
found in the rear of the battery rack or in a storage room. For a wet
battery, the date of formation is often stamped on the case or printed
on a sticker. Always have a new battery tested, and recharged if
necessary, before you leave the store. This can save you a lot of time
and frustration if the new battery is sulfated or has a manufacturing
defect.
--------------

Here is the complete section on battery date codes:


------------
The battery date codes for various manufacturers is perhaps the most
useful information to have when you're actually at the parts counter
about to buy a battery.

Some of the manufacturer's formation date coding techniques are as
follows:

7.6.1. Delphi (ACDelco) and some Sears DieHard

Dates are stamped on the cover near one post. The first number is the
year. The second character is the month A-M, skipping I. The last two
characters indicate geographic areas. For example, 0BN3=2000 February.

[Source: Interstate Batteries]


7.6.2. Douglas

Douglas uses the letters of their name to indicate the year of
manufacture and the digits 1-12 for the month. D=1994 O=1995 U=1996
G=1997 L=1998 A=1999 S=2000 For example, S02=2000 Feb.


7.6.3. East Penn, Exide (Champion), Johnson Controls Inc., Interstate,
Mopar (Chrysler) and some Sears DieHard)

Usually on a sticker or hot-stamped on the side of the case.
A=January, B=February, and the letter I is skipped. The number next to
the letter is the year of shipment. For example, B0=Feb 2000.

[Source: Interstate Batteries]


7.6.4. Exide (some Sears non-Gold DieHards)

The fourth or fifth character is the month. The following numeric
character is the year. A-M skipping I. For example, RO8B0B=February
2000.

[Source: Interstate Batteries]


7.6.5. Optima

The first character is the year. The following three numeric
characters are the days of the year. For example, 3123=3 May 2003.

7.6.6. Trojan

The date code on the negative post is stamped as the battery comes off
of the finishing line, ready to ship out or go into stock. The code
that is stamped is usually one month ahead. Therefore, a battery that
comes out in March will carry an April date code. The code on the
positive post is the manufacturing date that indicates when the
battery was physically built but before the addition of any
electrolyte. The letter is the month (A=Jan, B=Feb, C=March, etc.) and
the number is the actual date. So "K26" means that the battery was
ready for electrolyte filling and the first forming charge was on
November 26th. Since the negative post shows A2 (January 2002), the
manufacturing year has to be 2001.

7.6.7. Concorde

The activation date is on an orange sticker the shipping carton or
email Concorde Customer Service with the serial number of the battery.

7.6.8. Rolls and Surrette

The four digit date code represents the day of the week (first digit),
week of the year (middle two digits) and the year (last digit). For
example, April 4, 2003 would have 4143 as a date code. The date code
is stamped into the front edge of the cover of the battery.

 

Interesting info., MoMan!

Just curious: How does the Optima's specs. of 800 CCA/1000 MCA/110
minutes RC/50Ah stack up against your typical 34 battery? The size
(physical volume) is smaller than your typical battery. I guess I could
research that on my own, but figure you may have such info. right off
the top of your head and could provide usefulcomments.

My main motivation in putting an Optima in my Concorde was the moderate
difficulty in getting to it to replace or work on it - I figure it will
still be in the car and working when it (the car) goes away for whatever
reason (and I tend to keep cars *way* beyond what most people do). I
also very much like the idea of no liquid electrolyte to spill,
evaporate out, outgas (explode), corrode surrounding metal, etc.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

My 99 300M still has the original battery so you may have at least another
year to go.

 

"Bill Putney" wrote ...

Many thanks for your input and reference. Her car is now six years old, so
I figure it's about due. As soon as I'm up and about a bit better, I'll
make the swap.

Jim

 

In order to know exactly I'd have to have a list of dimensions,
weights, CCA's and RC's for all of Optima's car batteries.

If you know the dimensions and weight of your Optima battery, then
calculate the volume of your battery and use the formulas (below) to
see if your battery is heavier or lighter than what is predicted. I
can't see how all Spiral Wound AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries
_wouldn't_ be lighter than regular rectangular batteries of the same
external size.

FYI - Excide also seems to make a spiral-wound battery (Select
Orbital):

http://www.exideworld.com/products/automotive/exide_select_orbital.html

Using the numbers from the specs for the Exide ORB78D-84, I get a
predicted weight of 44 lbs, where according to it's specs it weighs 38
lbs.

I found some specs on "DayStarter" batteries (St. Paul, Minnesota) and
their group-34 battery has 600 CCA and RC of 110 minutes.

The following was computed based on data from 19 batteries in a list
of 12-volt passenger car and light commercial battery specifications
(January 2004) from http://www.daystarter.com/.

Battery weight vs Battery volume:

Weight = 0.0716 x V + 2.9
(r = .86)

Where V is the volume (in cubic inches) of the battery calculated by
multiplying the length by width by height. Volumes ranged from 432 to
734 cubic inches, and weights ranged from 34 to 56 lbs. So (as
expected) battery volume and weight correlate pretty well.

CCA vs weight:

CCA = 8.54 x W + 212
(r = .807)

Where W is the battery weight (in lbs) and CCA is the Cold Cranking
Amp rating at 0 degrees F. Interesting that it predicts 212 CCA at
zero battery weight.

CCA vs volume:

CCA = .647 x V + 218
(r = .778)

Where V is battery volume (in cubic inches). Again it predicts a CCA
of a little over 200 at zero battery volume.

Weight is slightly better than external volume at predicting a
battery's CCA.

Regarding reserve capacity (RC):

RC vs weight:

RC = 2.88 x W - 23
(r = .885)

Where RC is reserve capacity (in minutes) and W is battery weight
(lbs).

RC vs volume:

RC = .216 x V - 20
(r = .836)

Where V is battery volume (cubic inches).

Again weight is slightly better than external battery volume at
predicting reserve capacity. Interesting that at zero weight and
volume that it predicts about negative 20 for RC.

How does CCA correspond to RC?

RC = .317 x CCA - 83
(r = .968)

It's the strongest correlation.

So, what does all this mean?

1) Big batteries weigh more (tone down the wise-cracks)
2) Both weight and volume correspond with higher CCA's and higher RC.
3) CCA's correspond strongly with RC.
4) RC correlates better with both weight and volume than CCA does.
5) I'm thinking that Daystarter inflates their CCA by 200, and their
RC by 20 minutes (judging by the zero intercept of these graphs).

Executive summary:

1) If you want a lot of reserve capacity, you probably have no choice
but will get a lot of CCA with it.
2) Get the biggest, heaviest battery that will fit in your car.
3) The Reserve Capacity may be a better predictor of battery capacity
than the CCA rating.

4) Unless the newer spiral-wound batteries have inherently higher
energy densities, then their CCA and RC numbers are bogus and you are
making a trade-off (lower CCA's and RC's) vs getting a battery that
probably is better for off-roading and vibration tolerance but is no
better (durability-wise) for passenger car use than a standard AGM
(Absorbed Glass Mat) battery.

 

....and my '98 Intrepid has its original battery. Just passed 100K last
week. The factory battery seems to hold up pretty well as long as the
climate isn't extremely hot or cold.

--Geoff

 

I'll run the same calculations on the Optima 34. From its spec sheet
(http://www.optimabatteries.com/publ...1.ColumnPar.0005.File.tmp/34 & 34R_082304.pdf),
it's raw numbers are:
length 10 in.
width 6.875 in.
height 7.813 in.
(calculated volume 537.1 cu. in.)
Capacity 50 Ah
RC 110 minutes
CCA 800
MCA 1000

I think you were mainly looking at parametric correlation, but the work
you did can certainly be used to compare the Optima to the "regular"
batteries.

Optima 34: 800 CCA, 110 minutes

Predicted for Optima by that formula: 41.4 lbs.
Actual: 37.9
(As you point out, the spiral construction takes up more room for the
amount of effective material)

Predicted for Optima: 536 amps
Actual: 800 amps
(That spiral construction must expose more surface area per volume for
higher current density)

Predicted for Optima: 566 amps
Actual: 800 amps

Predicted for Optima: 86.2 minutes
Actual: 110 minutes
(For some reason, the construction apparently gives higher energy density)

Predicted for Optima: 96.0 minutes
Actual: 110 minutes

Predicted for Optima: 170.6 minutes
Actual: 110 minutes

The Optima has higher CCA and RC for its weight and volume, and it
apparently really stands out in CCA (more-so than RC). I guess that
means it would excel in extreme cold.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')