Dodge Intrepid 2.7L engine failure

Hi all,

2000 Dodge Intrepid, 2.7L, 52K miles. Engine blown.

This vehicle was purchased used about 7 months ago. Had been running
great, then one morning it suddenly sounded like a diesel engine. A
pronounced knocking sound from the engine compartment. The oil level
was checked and was found to be good.

We took it to an independent servicer, who said it was probably the
timing chain. He said it was a bear to work on, and recommended taking
the car to a dealer. The dealer wanted $87 to do a diagnostic. When
they called, they said it was the timing chain and tensioner, but
wanted an additional $300 to do a "tear down" before they would have a
complete estimate. They later called back and said the engine had
metal shavings and would require a complete engine replacement at
about $6500.

Meanwhile, we began to do a little research on the internet and found
hundreds of examples where others had the same problem. (For example
see http://www.datatown.com/chrysler/ ) It seems to be common with the
2.7L used in the Intrepid and LHS. From my reading and understanding
of the problem, it appears the engine was designed with very tight
tolerances on the oil passages, restricting the oil flow. The oil then
pools around the heads and burns leaving a "sludge" residue.

The other common theme we discovered, is that Chrysler is in a
complete state of denial, and refuses to accept any responsibility.
They actually blame the defect on the consumer, citing "lack of
maintenance" If the problem was truly due to neglect, as they claim,
why is the 2.7L having the great majority of the problems? Why not
across the board?

Sure enough, when we called the Customer Service to seek some kind of
concession, we were absolutely denied any kind of help, citing
customer neglect. When we said the vehicle was purchased just seven
months ago from another Dodge dealer, and was properly maintained, he
said we should go after them.

I'm curious, has anyone had any success in getting Chrysler to provide
assistance? I understand Toyota had a similar problem with one of
their engines, but now provide reimbursement for repairs relating to
sludge problems http://www.autosafety.org/uploads/SludgeLetter.pdf

Thanks for any help or suggestions,
Alan Harriman

 

The 2.7L is also used on the Concorde, and, by my unbderstanding, also
on oversees LH vehicles (300M's, etc.).

A google search on this ng will also turn up some discussion on the
issue, but nothing really definitive. It sounds like you know more
about the causes than I did already.

I find it strange that DC is using the 2.7 as the base engine in some of
its new models. The obvious questions are did they really uderstand the
root cause of the problems on the ones used in the LH vehicles, and did
they fix the problems on the ones being built now. Kind of stupid of
the answer is "no", but I don't doubt anything.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

Interesting statement - where did you find that info.? I had speculated
a similar cause, but have not been able to find much fact or speculation
elsewhere.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

| Hi all,
|
| 2000 Dodge Intrepid, 2.7L, 52K miles. Engine blown.
|
| This vehicle was purchased used about 7 months ago. Had been running
| great, then one morning it suddenly sounded like a diesel engine. A
| pronounced knocking sound from the engine compartment. The oil level
| was checked and was found to be good.
|
| We took it to an independent servicer, who said it was probably the
| timing chain. He said it was a bear to work on, and recommended taking
| the car to a dealer. The dealer wanted $87 to do a diagnostic. When
| they called, they said it was the timing chain and tensioner, but
| wanted an additional $300 to do a "tear down" before they would have a
| complete estimate. They later called back and said the engine had
| metal shavings and would require a complete engine replacement at
| about $6500.
|
| Meanwhile, we began to do a little research on the internet and found
| hundreds of examples where others had the same problem. (For example
| see http://www.datatown.com/chrysler/ ) It seems to be common with the
| 2.7L used in the Intrepid and LHS. From my reading and understanding
| of the problem, it appears the engine was designed with very tight
| tolerances on the oil passages, restricting the oil flow. The oil then
| pools around the heads and burns leaving a "sludge" residue.
|
| The other common theme we discovered, is that Chrysler is in a
| complete state of denial, and refuses to accept any responsibility.
| They actually blame the defect on the consumer, citing "lack of
| maintenance" If the problem was truly due to neglect, as they claim,
| why is the 2.7L having the great majority of the problems? Why not
| across the board?
|
| Sure enough, when we called the Customer Service to seek some kind of
| concession, we were absolutely denied any kind of help, citing
| customer neglect. When we said the vehicle was purchased just seven
| months ago from another Dodge dealer, and was properly maintained, he
| said we should go after them.
|
| I'm curious, has anyone had any success in getting Chrysler to provide
| assistance? I understand Toyota had a similar problem with one of
| their engines, but now provide reimbursement for repairs relating to
| sludge problems http://www.autosafety.org/uploads/SludgeLetter.pdf
|
| Thanks for any help or suggestions,
| Alan Harriman
|
|

I've heard that the 2.7 is prone to sludge problems, but I had heard that it
applies only to engines that were not maintained to the schedule. I take it it
was a used vehicle when you purchased it? If so, the oil probably wasn't
changed as often as it should have been by the previous owner(s).

Curious though. Many used car dealers will cover these things for either the
balance of the new car warranty OR 12 months, which ever is longer. Since you
purchased it 7 months ago, won't the used car dealer you bought it from cover
this?

 

Actually, the service writer at the dealership made reference to oil flow
problems in these particular engines relating to sludge, as she said they have
narrow oil passages.

Then I saw a couple references while surfing the net, ie
http://www.anyboard.net/autos/cars/cars/posts/430.html also
http://www.anyboard.net/autos/cars/cars/posts/451.html


Here's a link to an "Automotive News" article. Although relating to Toyota, it
seems to address many of the same issues.
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38921

Alan Harriman

 

Toyota cares about the customer and takes care of them. DC knows it's a
problem but doesn't care. Mine blew at 82,000KM after carefull maintenance.
They first said it was a maintence issue. After I provided the bills from
the dealer for all service work. The response I got was "Tough luck". After
driving Chrysler cars since 1980(Including 7 new ones) I am now a Nissan
owner and just love the car. In two years and 1/2 years my only service
experience is oil changes. My wifes previous 96 Minivan had tons of problems
also(Tranny,Head casket,Steering rack,ECT).

The best advice for you or anyone else is to remember this at your next
purchase and stay clear of DC products.

 

On what evidence do you base this assertion about Toyota? I don't have
experience with Toyota beyond the showroom as I was treated so poorly by
the arrogant salesman that I've never bought one. Their "Toyota's are
so good you don't need a test drive and must stand in line for one and
take it sight unseen" attitude turned me off in literaly seconds.

I owned a Honda Accord lemon once and Honda didn't stand behind their
vehicle AT ALL and, to top it off, sent me a nasty response to my letter
to their zone office accusing me of failing to maintain the car
properly. After I send them a large envelope stuffed with a copy of my
detailed maintenance log book, they backed off on the poor maintenance
accusation and said that "80,000 miles of service was within the
expected life tolerance for a Honda engine." Sorry, but this is the
only engine I've ever owned that I didn't take to over 100,000 miles
before needing internal mechanical work, and since Honda's standards are
so low (at least they were in 1988), I've never bought another Honda of
any description.


Matt

 

| Toyota cares about the customer and takes care of them. DC knows it's a
| problem but doesn't care. Mine blew at 82,000KM after carefull maintenance.
| They first said it was a maintence issue. After I provided the bills from
| the dealer for all service work. The response I got was "Tough luck". After
| driving Chrysler cars since 1980(Including 7 new ones) I am now a Nissan
| owner and just love the car. In two years and 1/2 years my only service
| experience is oil changes. My wifes previous 96 Minivan had tons of problems
| also(Tranny,Head casket,Steering rack,ECT).
|
| The best advice for you or anyone else is to remember this at your next
| purchase and stay clear of DC products.

Some Toyota engines are known for having sludge problems as well. I've heard
this exact same story from Toyota owners. I don't theink the car companies are
that much different from one another. I would suggest using only synthetics in
these newer DOHC engines (regardless of make)...that's all I use any more.

 

Great links, Alan. I've been looking for discussion of that issue for a
long time. While some of it is pretty emotional, there are things to be
learned there.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

Technicality here, but I think you guys really mean "tight or small
clearances" or something similar rather than "tight tolerances". The
oil passages could be 3" or 0.030" in diamater with tight tolerances -
the latter would have problems, the former clearly would not even with
very loose tolerances. It's the nominal size of the passages that is
the first-order issue, not the tolerances, per-se. Otherwise, good
discussion.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

I'm curious what changes are necessary to replace a 2.7 with a 3.2 or
3.5? Motor mounts, wiring, computer, etc? One used parts dealer had a
3.2L engine from a 2000 Intrepid he was selling for $1100. (I believe
he said it had 57K miles) Almost none had 2.7's available, but the few
that did wanted $2600 or more.

Alan Harriman

 

If you live near Indianapolis you can go here for about $4500 + tax, seems
to include everything

http://www.hillsgarage.com/automotive_engine_deals.htm

I live in Chicago and don't have a 2.7 but seems like it would be a lot
less than $7,000 even after tax

 

what year concorde? all the ones i've seen are 3.3 or 3.5

 

'99. I'm not sure when or if they stopped using the 2.7 in the Concorde
- maybe '01 or '02?

For the '98 and '99, maybe the '00, I believe the 2.7L was the more
common engine in the Concordes and Intrepids (LX and ES).

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

I plan on removing my oil pan in a few weeks for a stripped out drain
plug thread. I plan on taking photos of the underside, oil pickup
screen etc., and inside the pan, and will post. It will be interesting
to see the difference with the method I've been using to keep down
sludge.

By the way - you shouldn't attach photos to a news group post - better
to link to a web-based file that the reader can go to if interested.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

im well aware of news group etiquette on attaching photos bill, but
thanks........

its a one time thing and i didnt have time to up load them to the site.

 

Toyota sent letters to owners of the questionable engine stating that
repairs will be made for free up to 80k miles provided you can prove
at least 1 oil change was made per years. Why 80K mile limitation? I
presume if it doesn't show up by then it won't ever be a problem with
proper maintenence.

 

the 94 i just bought shows only 3.3 and 3.5 as options

 

Oops - sorry - I'm used to thinking only in terms of the 2nd generation
LH cars. The first 3 or so years of the 2nd gen ('98, ...) were
available with 2.7L. I think you're right - no 1st gen's with 2.7L.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

and only the Concorde and Intrepid, and overseas versions of the 300M.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")