Dim Headlights on 97 voyager

On that point I continue to disagree. As we age, we tend to lose color
perception on the longer wavelengths.

"In addition, the lens becomes yellow with aging, thus reducing transparency
for short wavelengths more than for medium and long wavelengths. In people >
60 yr, this age-related change results in a reduction in discrimination of
blue objects, which often appear gray; blue print and blue background
typically appear washed out. This condition can be confirmed with the use of
color plates during a routine eye examination. People who use color
discrimination in their professions (eg, artists, seamstresses,
electricians) need to be alert to these changes."

 

Did you even read what you cited?

 

I was paraphasing what was being said, to try to make sense of the
Sylvania web site which seemed a bit obtuse. For the record, I also
said that for myself, green light is best for night time vision. Red is
not so hot. And I could add that blue appears the worse of the three
although I have yet to personally test blue. This assumes all three
have the same output for a point of reference.

Interesting story you tell there.

I know. I would be quite happy with clear bulbs in clear housings and
not any blue light which is mighty annoying when it enters my eyeballs.

 

Maybe he doesn't understand that blue is a shorter wavelength than red
or green? Or doesn't realize "color perception" has little to do with
sensitivities to different colors? Or realilze that "reducing
transparency" will translate to "not be able to see as well?"

 

Roughly half the population is glare-sensitive. The other half cannot
understand what they're bitching about with regard to headlamp glare at
night, and tend to make dismissive remarks to the effect that people who
have faulty vision shouldn't drive at night. The glare-sensitive half, on
the other hand, cannot understand how anyone could *not* be blinded and
hurt by the glare.

The emerging understanding is that while blue light is inherently more
glaring simply due to the nature of short-wavelength light and the nature
of the human visual system, half the population -- which is NOT
necessarily the same half as those who are glare-sensitive! -- are
especially blue-sensitive, such that blue light causes pain and reduces
visual acuity even at relatively low intensities.

So, we have four types of night drivers:

1) The lucky ones who are neither glare-sensitive nor blue-sensitive
2) Those who are glare-sensitive but not blue-sensitive (that's me)
3) Those who are blue-sensitive but not glare-sensitive
4) Those who are both glare-sensitive and blue-sensitive

There is no group for which blue light gives better seeing while driving
at night. Just about every group you can think of has been tested for it
-- young, old, glare-sensitive, nonglare-sensitive, male, female, black,
white, etc., and in no group has there been a reliable finding of
significantly improved seeing with "blue" (i.e., blue-rich or yellow-poor
relative to balanced white) light.

There was one study done which purported to show an amazing 30%
improvement in seeing ability for drivers of any/every age, sex,
ethnicity, etc. with Sylvania Cool Blue bulbs relative to ordinary
Sylvania bulbs. This study was commissioned and funded by Sylvania, and
Sylvania provided both the clear and the blue bulbs used in the study.
Given that the 9006 bulbs used in the study are legally permitted to
produce between 850 and 1150 lumens, it's not difficult to figure out how
the result was obtained. Funnily enough, all the studies that are *not*
sponsored and stocked by companies that sell blue bulbs show that there's
increased glare from such bulbs, with no seeing benefit for anyone.

DS

 

Blue is a short wavelength. Yellow is a long one. Thank you for proving my
case.

DS (Would you like to discuss the matter at the International Symposium on
Automotive Lighting end of next month in Darmstadt? I'll be there, how
'bout you?)

 

Certainly you have an agenda: To have your opinion and your purchase
decisions validated. That's just human nature. It's why products like
Slick-50 and Silverstar bulbs continue to sell.

Numerous links have already been supplied to detailed and scientific
explanations of how and why the blue-filtered bulbs you like do not help
you see better. That you have chosen not to read them, or to disbelieve
them, does not elevate your subjective opinion or Sylvania's
pseudoscientific hype to the level of fact.

DS (...or perhaps the laws of physics cease to be valid in your minivan.)

 

"> Certainly you have an agenda: To have your opinion and your purchase

No, Daniel J. Stern, I do NOT have an agenda; you do. I'm not in business of
selling automotive light assemblies; you are. I only posted that I can see
much better after installing the Silverstar with it's white light. Not blue,
white. I like the better vision and am willing to recommend them. When I
originally wrote that I seen better after I switched to the Siverstar, you
had to write and tell me how wrong it was, that I couldn't possibly be
seeing better, that it was only my misguided "opinion". No one can possibly
see better by switching over to the Silverstar bulbs.

Bullshit!

You know as well as I that a bright white light makes everything easier to
see at night. There are pictures of several of Sylvania's different lights
and how they look at night available on their website. All you or anyone
else need do is bring each one up in a different browser window and switch
between them. It's easy to see the difference between each of the different
bulbs. (I would love to have the GE bulbs for comparison as well, but they
don't post pictures.)

Here's the one you favor, the Xtravision, uncoated and yellow light
http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/HighPerformance/Xtravision/
here's the SilverStar with its slight blush tint and white light
http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/HighPerformance/Silverstar
and here's a Cool Blue with its deep blue tint (which is definitely dimmer)
http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/HighPerformance/CoolBlue/

This is an easy way for you (and everyone else) to see the difference for
yourselves.
Load all three in separate browsers, then switch between them using
<alt><tab>.

Still think the yellow light of the Xtravision is better?

LOAD THE PAGES AND SEE THE DIFFERENCE FOR YOURSELF.

You can't help but see the difference.

(Maybe it camera trick? Perhaps Sylvania is publishing fake pictures? It's
possible; but having used the Silverstar, I have to believe that their
somewhat an honest representation of what to expect.)

This goes for everyone else that took his position. Load the two sets of
pictures, look at the difference between the XtraVision and the SilverStar,
and see for yourself what YOU think is better. Perhaps I'm wrong and you
will favor the yellow light. Personally I see much better with the white.

For the record, I did check your website when I first was looking for
information about the SilverStar. I read your comments, and simply choose to
ignore your viewpoint (on the SilverStar). I had already seen the
SilverStar's in my neighbors car and loved the results of better visibility
and vision.

 

Thanks for your reply, Richard.
I believe you are confusing the Sylvania CoolBlue with the Sylvania
SilverStar that I was writing about. There is a big difference between the
two.

First the gas mixture in the SilverStar is a combination of halogen and
xenon (not just straight halogen with a blue filter.) The xenon gas is what
provides the whiter light. (The light blue/purple coating on the glass
filters out the red rays that would normally make the light yellow.) The
result is a very white, bright light (different from the Cool Blue which is
a halogen gas bulb and has a dark blue filter.)

I'm not certain as to what gas the XtraVision uses. Probably just halogen
with a stronger filament. (That, is just a guess, I never looked that
closely at this bulb.)

An easy way for you to see the difference for yourself is to compare
pictures of the different bulbs (load and switch between the two using the
<alt><tab> keys.

Here is what a XtraVision looks like:
http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/HighPerformance/Xtravision/
here is what the SilverStar looks like:
http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/HighPerformance/Silverstar/
and here is the Cool Blue bulbs (this is the one I believe you were thinking
about)
http://www.sylvania.com/ConsumerProducts/AutomotiveLighting/HighPerformance/CoolBlue/

As you can see, the SilverStar and XtraVision or both bright bulbs; the
difference being one is yellow light and one is white.
The Cool Blue is much dimmer and has a distinctive blue light associated
with it. IF this is what you were thinking of, I wholeheartedly agree with
your comments (however I was recommending the SilverStar, not the Cool
Blue's.).

I would be interested in your comments after looking at the light of all
three bulbs. Do you still feel that the SilverStar is not worth considering?
And if so, why?

 

I have the silverstar bulbs in my 97 concorde, and enjoy them better than
anything else i've tried, but i also have to frequently clean the plastic
headlight lenses with plastic cleaner to remove the foggy buildup since the
plastic does not have a UV protectant integral to the plastic.

 

There is very little difference between these two bulbs. The SilverStar
has a darker blue tint to the glass and a shorter lifespan.

Same goes for every halogen car bulb you can buy. It's just that some of
the boxes say "XENON!" and others don't. Did you know that the maximum
usable percentage of Xenon in a halogen bulb is 5-1/2 percent? More than
that, and adjacent coils of the filament tend to arc to one another.

No, the blue glass filters out *yellow* rays that would otherwise help you
see. It does not filter out red rays.

 

So not only do the laws of physics cease to hold good in your minivan, but
human nature doesn't apply to you, either.

That's fascinating, but I'm afraid it's not quite fascinating enough,
so...into the killfile you go!

 

Are you sure about that? Surely it filters out BOTH yellow and red.
Otherwise, you would have a magenta beam, not blue.

 

Sorry, your wrong. I got my information directly from Sylvania.

The XtraVision is halogen only, and gets its added visibility from a beter
focused beam. The SilverStar has the same focusing and gets its whiter beam
by using xenon gas. (Both have approx the same distance according to
Sylvania.) One is a yellower light, the other is a pure white.)

The only thing new is that the email they sent yesterday, Pamula stated that
they do not recommend the SilverStar for Daylight Running Lights use
(shortens the life too much). (I do not use this feature in either my
Chrysler Sebring convertible nor my Mercury Sable.)

Again, that came directly from Sylvania. It's a blue/purple coating that
filters the red rays. And looking at the bulb, it's only a light coating,
nothing like the Cool Blue bulbs.

 

I just bought a plastic cleaner off of eBay and tried it. It was OK but
nothing to write home about. A neighbor uses toothpaste to clean his lenses
and claims it works well.

But you raised a good point, after cleaning, what's to stop UV from quickly
clouding the lenses again?

After cleaning my plastic lenses, I found my problem isn't yellowing or
cloudiness, it's tiny pits from sand and whatnot. Like to refinish the
surface without using 2000 grit sandpaper but I'm afraid I may have to go
that way. One of the fellas I work with, recommended 3M Plastic Polish.

Like to ask, what kind of plastic cleaner did you use and would you
recommend it?

 

I am quite sure about it. There's a very good SPD diagram in Sullivan, J
M, and Flannagan, M J: "Visual Effects of Blue Tinted Tungsten-Halogen
Headlamp Bulbs". Michigan University, Ann Arbor, Transportation Research
Institute, UMTRI 94291, April 2001 .

 

I have used Meguiar's PlastX and it does look an awfully lot like
toothpaste. Depending on the abrasivity index of the toothpaste, it
could come close to polishing. The more abrasive toothpastes which have
indices over 120 might be okay. I would not use them often for teeth
but that's another story. If you telephone the manufacturer of
toothpaste they will give you the abrasivity index, which has a special
name, of course.

Relative dentine abrasivity (RDA) and relative enamel abrasivity (REA)
are the technical names. But the plastic polishers are not much more
than the toothpaste. Although they both kind of do the same thing.

But toothpaste probably does not have UV protectors unless you go
around all day with your nose in the air, smiling at the clouds.

I think that's cool. But it annoys my fellow humans to no end

If you command the sun to go inside of keep your car inside during the
day. I just use sunscreen with a high index - this is a joke.

They do make polishes for this purpose. Depending on where you live,
you might ask around for those who have a big problem with this.
Motorcycle shops might know about this but I don't know if the plastic
in motorcycle windshields is the same plastic in your car. For example,
Lexan would not be likely used in your car. That's the super tough
plastic used in difficult situations. So maybe using the motorcycle
shops makes this a bit complicated. Stick to the cars instead?

3M makes a lot. Novus does too. Meguiar's. There is a whole lot of talk
on the internet about this, specifically for cars, and for RV's, and
motorcycles. There are even kits for this. There is a lot of expertise
that is out there.

I used Meguiar's PlastX. The main reason was cost. It was $1 a little
pouch, so not much to lose. That and an old pair of socks. Did the job.
Now Pep Boys has Blue Magic which some like. That's $6 or $7. I don't
find too much selection in the auto stores. You might also ask your
Chrysler dealer if they have any ideas since this is a very typical
problem. I mention Pep Boys since AutoZone where I got the Meguiar's
can't find any more of my $1 pouches!

I can order Meguiar's directly from them on the internet for about $5 +
$4 shipping since I cannot find it locally. I find everything else but
not their PlastX which they recommend for just this purpose, a cleaner
and polisher in one.

Plast-X G12310 10 oz. 296 ml $4.99 $3.95 UPS Meguiars.com
1.800.347.5700

That should get you up and running at the base level. About the
sanding, that's a step up the ladder if the basic stuff does not work
by itself.

If you want to get a little more complicated, 3M and Novus makes a
whole series of polishers and increasingly tougher cleaners. You start
off with the mild and work your way up, depending on the scratches that
you have. And you can also use the very fine sanding. You might want to
contact them and read up on it. My only first-hand experience is with
Meguiar's PlastX. It took only a minute.

 

Forgot to mention in previous reply: You are assuming the blue glass
filters out *all* the yellow light, which it does not. Since the majority
of a halogen bulb's visible output is in the yellow, the degree is limited
to which yellow can be filtered out and still have a bulb that complies
with legal-minimum luminous flux and legal-maximum wattage.

 

" One is a yellower light, the other is a pure white."

Again, there is no such thing as "Pure White". Now, color TV has selected an
NTSC standard for white, to be used in camera and display calibration, but
that is not "pure white" either, just a standard (high noon, sun generated,
outdoor white). In the real world the Sylvania bulb that puts out the most
useful light in North America is the Xtravision line of bulbs. The GE Night
Hawk line puts out even more light. Neither are coated. The most light is
put out by bulbs invented by GE and produced today by Toshiba (coated to
reflect the otherwise wasted heat back to the filament to increase its
efficiency). Expensive, and worth every penny in the right application.

Richard.

Richard.

 

That's right. In the context of automotive lighting, about the closest
accurate term that exists is "centric white", because the US and
International standard for light color contain enormous white boxes.

Also right.