Detroit auto makers try some new tricks

I've had two Chryslers in 22 years, an 87 and 95.
I believe I know a bit more about reliability than coachrose!

 

That's true IMO.
The domestic bottom end cars have much lower quality than up a level.
The Fusion has a good record so far, the Focus has been troublesome.

The bottom end "imports" from Honda and Toyota have good reliability.
All VWs have been troublesome since they went to Mexico in the early 90s.
I've heard that German manufactured VW are very reliable.

 

You know what is stupid about building the cheap cars with crap
reliability? That's the first impression many young buyers get of a car
company! If you buy a Cobalt when you are 18 and it's a piece of crap
why in the world would you consider GM when you have a little more money
to spend? You are gonna look elsewhere because of the bad experience.

GM doesn't seem to get that.

b

 

Please quit trolling. Bill has posted extensive links to other sites with
hundreds of other owners making similar bitches, if you are honestly
interested, you can use google news to search the history of this group
and find his prior posts and links.

Ted

 

Trust me it does. I owned a 1980 Datsun 210 for a number of years. Very
reliable and good car, went through 3 transmissions and 2 engines. I really
liked the ability to lay under the car and unbolt and change out the
transmission
by hand, no trans jack required, since the trans was so light. However I
had to
unload it about 3 years ago because parts were just getting too difficult to
find
anymore. And I definitely have nothing good to say about Nissan support
and its's dealerships. I had on more than 1 occassion, used parts sold to me
by the
dealership where they claimed they were new, and claimed they had come out
of the
warehouse all covered with black greasy fingerprints, and the bag slit open
and taped back
together. The guy who bought it wanted it for a 60's Datsun truck he was
restoring.

Ted

 

My hating of having to deal with dealerships started with my first new
car - a 1973 Mercury Capris - had a truly terrible vibration from brand
new. Got no help from the dealer or regional rep. I had to
troubleshoot it and fix it myself - an improperly machined front wheel
hub caused a tilted wheel bearing. I don't expect perfection out of the
box, but I expect an obvious flaw to be fixed by the dealer.

Second new car was a 1980 Chev. Citation. The drivers door almost fell
off from a poorly welded hinge (under warranty). Any product can have a
flaw, but the dealer did a crappy job of taking care of the problem -
and in the process replaced door hardware with bad parts out of some
mechanic's junkbox and took my good hardware.

The brakes were dangerous (rear wheels locked up on wet roads due to a
known design flaw) - NHTSA finally recalled it after several people were
killed due to the problem that GM knew about all along. Dealer had to
repaint glove box door due to a factory flaw - they used gloss paint
that didn't match the rest of the interior - when I complained, they
said "This isn't a Cadillac. This is a low end car that isn't expected
to be perfect." Got same line when I asked them to replace the interior
metal molding piece along the top of the windshield a week after I took
delivery - it had a dent the size of a small fist in it - had to fight
them like hell to get it replaced ("Not a Cadillac...low end
vehicle...can't expect it to be perfect").

Yeah - they batted 0 out of 2 my first two new car experiences at a
young age - 1973 and 1980. Poor customer service is not a new phenomenon.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Yep - see my story in my other post.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Trolling? Dizzy a troll? Say it isn't so. <G>

 

But in a way, he's right. I know a lot of people that can point to similar
treatment from dealers. My dad would NEVER take the car back to a dealer
once he bought it. We had a lot of GM cars. It's gotten so bad that the
new car dealers in Chicago have banded together and started an ad campaign
to try to convince people they should buy used cars and get their car
serviced at a new car store.

"When you buy a used car
at a new car store,
You get a great deal,
and a great deal more."

Of course I replace the third and fourth lines with,
You get f***ed in the a$$,
With a steel wool pad!

And I'm starting to see that attitude from some of the Toyota dealers, too.
I guess they've had it too good for too long. And no Ray O about to remind
them what they're on about. Schaumburg Toyota is OK, but there's another
dealer around here that acts more like the old-style GM dealers every day.
They even started advertising putting nitrogen in tires. If you really
want a cool running tire, why not put hydrogen in it? Then if you ever got
struck by lightning, you could watch the Hindenburg effect. <g>

Charles of Schaumburg

 

I've owned exactly 2 new cars, and the dealers gave me a hard time about
both.

First one was a 1971 KE30 Corolla. The reason I had such a hard time, was I
had a job where I was getting transfered every 6 months. So each time
service came up, I was living in a different town. The local Toyota dealer
wanted me to take it back where I bought it (several hundered miles away)
for service.) But in those days, most of the dealers in that part of the
country were either ex-GM or also-GM dealers.

The second new vehicle I purchased was a 95 Chevy S-10. Again, any
problems I had I got NO help from the dealer. The engine kept losing a hose
and the Check Engine light came on all the time. And I started seeing rust
before the vehicle was a year old. And then there where the crappy
rear-only ABS that nearly caused me to get into a wreck.

Detroit dealers ought to be working Rush Street, cause all they know how to
do is turn tricks. They're a lot like politicians. Anyone that's actually
been one should be disallowed from being one in the future.

Charles of Schaumburg

 

I have seen at least two Toyota dealerships that won't work on 'old'
Toyotas, and they really pressure you to buy a new one. There's one just
south of the southern suburbs here in Chicago that's been a joke for at
least 15 years, if not longer and he won't work on any car over 2 years old,
and will not work on the car if you didn't buy it from him.

Charles of Schaumburg

 

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

GM seems to have forgotten that proverb, along with,

You never get a second chance to make a good first impression.

Charles of Schaumburg

 

Her's was a 2001, if memory serves. As for the newer ones, I have never
driven one, but I did read an article in a local paper that one of them won
some sort of award. I never liked them because they were made of plastic,
and I never thought them to be attractive.

 

Wickeddoll® wrote:

I never *quit* driving American cars, and I'm *NOT* always running to
the shop (436,000 miles on one, 320,000 on another, 244,000 on the
newest). I've owned both American and Japanese cars, and the whole
"japanese cars are better" myth is just that- a myth based on a brief
period of time 25 years ago and perpetuated by incessant glossy ad copy.
All the Toyota owners with burned-up engines are finally realizing that.

 

Ashton Crusher wrote:

Because it didn't really happen. Nothing was wrong. It was the owners'
fault.

 

Only after spending FIVE YEARS stating that, "It was just owners who
didn't change their oil regularly." Oh yeah, that Toyota service is the
*greatest*. Just like Honda back in the 90s saying "Ignitors? What
ignitors? We don't see ANY problems with ignitors. By the way, we
installed a new ignitor, now quit complaining."

 

<>
"Wickeddoll®"
wrote:

You havent been reading some of the posts here, have you??? We on
occasion, have quests who visit here and make claims of something
like 9 million miles without any probems on their Toyotas. Guess they
just cant contain such excitement on the Toyota site, and have to come
over here and share their experiences.

Coach

Oh please, I've have been on this NG for many years, and I read most of the
posts about cars (I don't always read the off-topic stuff), and I have yet
to see any posts that say "I have never heard of a Toyota having a problem."

Ludicrous.

What we keep saying, and you refuse to acknowledge, is that when Toyotas
*do* have problems, the recall/notice practices are far superior.

I'd rather hear from Toyota that something may be or is wrong with my car,
than to find out the hard way, as domestic carmakers like to do. I hope
they at least are more up front in the future, and don't blame the consumer
when something is fubared on their cars. I think most people can forgive
errors, but nobody I know likes to be called a liar or incapable of driving
a vehicle properly.

You know as well as I do, that domestic car makers are well-known for citing
"driver/owner error" when someone dies in their vehicles.

Natalie

 

"n5hsr"

Wow, I've never had that problem. They've always worked on our cars, even
the Corolla FX 16 that was 17 years old the last time we had it serviced.
(it now belongs to my mom)

Natalie

 

"who" <...

If I were in the market for a large vehicle (minivan or truck) I'd head
straight for domestic dealers. The Japanese haven't mastered those
all-American vehicles. I see *so* many ancient Ford trucks on the road;
sometimes rusty, but still spry. What's really cool is when the owner has
invested in detailing them. Nothing cooler-looking, IMO; especially if it's
bright red.



Natalie

 

"Ted Mittelstaedt" ...

*sarcasm mode on*

Yeah, if it's on Google or Wikipedia, it must be true!

*sarcasm mode off*

Here we go with the sludge whining again. How long ago was that?

Everything you guys have been saying about sludge has been shown (on the
same sites you're mentioning) that Toyota made restitution for it.

I have yet to see any *later model* Toyota buyers have the same complaint.

Toyotas have had plenty of problems, but it's been my experience that they
swiftly rectify them, and will nag you until you go in to get it fixed, on
them.

It's all about customer service - not perfection.

Natalie