Detroit auto makers try some new tricks

"Ashton Crusher"

First of all, I've never heard *anyone* say Toyotas *never* have problems.

Secondly, I only take my car to Toyota dealerships for regular maintenance.
I've been burned too many times at other places.

Natalie

 

We've got 5 drivers now in the extended family and we have 4 Toyotas, 3
Corollas and 3 95's All of the Corollas are AE10x.

At one point we had 3 TE7x Corollas and one TE31 Corolla. We've also helped
a friend buy a BR12x Corolla, and I just recently sold a 93 Corolla AE109E
with 230,000 miles on it. Our first Toyota was a TA12 Carina that we
managed to put 36,000 miles a year on, until we finally bought a second car
(the aforementioned TE31 Corolla) I also owned a 1501 KE30 along the way
somewhere and 2 different TE72's.

Charles of Schaumburg

 

Hey again, Natalie! Nice to see you again. I was trying not to get into
this conversation -P) but I just had to point out that a friends Saturn
went to almost 400,000 Km's, and was still running when she got rid of
it...You know how much I like GM, but even *I* don't like Saturn's!

 

We don't buy too many really small ones. But I think you have a
point, the larger, RWD usually are more robust. But we've driven many
mid-sized, like Chevy Celebrities back in the mid 80's (they were
almost indestructible), and more recently Lumina's and Taurus's. Many
go well into the 150K region though before getting sold.

 

"80 Knight" ...

Hey, 80!

Yeah, now that you've mentioned it, I remember that people used to love
Saturns, but apparently they've gone downhill?

Natalie

 

You know, I don't see that happening. Here's why.

1. The economy is booming, but GM and Ford are both teetering on the brink
of bankruptcy. Any slowdown in the economy (which seems overdue) is going
to push them over the edge. After they've gone bankrupt, they'll be in such
fantastic financial shape they won't need to improve anything for a long
time.

2. There's no talk at all of doing something about the moral character of
their dealers. It was the dealers, more than the cars, that made so many
enemies. If your car broke down a few times, a good dealer could have
smoothed all that over. I may be wrong, but I'm thinking most people that
hate GM/Ford/Chrysler wouldn't go into the dealership no matter what kind of
hardware is there.

 

I agree. The volt looked right to me, but they'll never let it out the
door. The volt was made like the hybrids of the 70's. Anybody in a
cheap-electricity area would take that car. People used to build their own!
Does that tell you anything?

After the Detroit show, GM showed just how dedicated they are to not
producing what we want. They updated the volt concept by replacing the
engine out with a fuel cell. That won't get it closer to the market.

 

"Joe" ...

Well, I can't speak for the haters, but I try never to condemn the product
because of the salesman. I think that's a pretty narrow-minded way to look
at things.

Natalie

 

You have got to be kidding. How long do you think Detroit's slide has
taken? Think hard. When did the people of the US start to get mad? Pick
your date. Did they do /anything/ of a sane nature to stop? Anything at
all? The Chevy Vega, perhaps? Maybe the Oldsmobile Diesel? How about the
Chrysler k-car? It's just been one pile of junk after another.

GM has borrowed almost $200 Billion dollars. Using that money to invest in
their future, they've made absolutely no progress in market share, revenue,
profitability, nothing they can use to have a future....... It's just a
death spiral. At the dealers, it's business as usual, only slower.

 

"Ashton Crusher"
"Wickeddoll®"

I used to work with a doc who only bought Taurus(es?). He's a country doc
out in the boonies (still makes house calls) and he drove those things to
hell and back. He was once shot at by an elderly patient who forgot he was
coming to see her. He left the bullet holes there, and somehow managed to
trade it. LOL



Natalie

 

Exactly right. Ask yourself- Why? Why is that? Something is going on, but
what?

Is it the media? Why do the media like foreign cars? You can at least come
up with a theory. Were Americans cars really that bad 30 years ago (I can
answer that - yes). But then again, maybe it's the dealers. If nothing
else, the domestic dealers have had more time to make people mad.

 

There you go. You've hit on it exactly. Have you heard any talk about
GM/Ford/Chrysler addressing this problem before they go bankrupt? It ain't
exactly a secret.

 

"Joe" ..

I hope you're wrong. I don't to see domestic cars fade away; especially for
auto workers. Yeah, they voted the union weasels in, but I don't think they
should be forever punished for that.

Natalie

 

Hi!

Fair enough.

Now that one was--if I'm not mistaken--an excellent concept. At the very
least, they sold well and you *still* see plenty of them on the road. Some
have even said the K-car was the car that pulled Chrysler back from the
brink of failure.

I bought one for $100 and put a little money into it to make it into a
workable car once again. Now it runs and drives pretty well, even if the
paint is oxidized and the body has some not insignificant rust. Twenty three
years later the interior has really held up nicely.

In fact, my only complaint is what sits under the hood....a 2.6 liter
Mitsubishi engine. Today it seems to be impossible to find anyone who wants
anything to do with the carburetion system...in other words, heaven help you
if it breaks. It's only through the OEM service manual and a lot of
tinkering that I've learned anything about how it is supposed to work. And
it's still not quite right...it does run, but I think the Chrysler 2.2 would
have been the better engine choice at the time.

I suppose that it is also a matter of what you're used to as well. I can't
complain about Japanese and other Asian cars, many people have them and are
quite happy. But they are different beasts and I can't help but wonder if
the same thing will happen parts and service wise for them in 23 years.

William

 

And oh,boy, have they EVER been issuing recalls in the past couple of
years. I guess that says a whole lot about the Japanese
"reliablilty",. eh?"??

 

Naw, just coachrose speaking here, for himself. I'm sure Mike Hunter
can speak for himself and handle himself equally well..

Now, are you calling me a LIAR????

Every thing I have ever posted about my GM cars in this site has been
factual. Sorry if you have ever had problems with your GM's, if
indeed, you have ever owned any. My 31 year track record of reliablity
from GM cars will probably influence me into buying several more in
the upcoming years, if , God willing, I am able to do so. Continue to
bash away. I'll continue to get where I want to go in my GM vechicles.

 

I'm probably missing something here, so enlighten me. I assume you are
meaning your Chrysler's gave you trouble, so you decided to not buy
GM???? Makes no sense to me. GM does not make Chrysler's, but neither
does Toyota, nor Nissan or Honda, or whatever you wound up buying, so
why blame GM for a bad Chrysler?????

Been hearing this argument for about 20 years and am quite frankly,
getting sick of it. Gm is there, statistically, or however any other
way you want to put it, with other companies, in terms of quality.


The VERY few times I have ever had problems with my GM cars, they have
taken care of it. Period. What do you mean by "GM does nothing about
it????????"

Cant even come up with an answer to that one!!!!

Comparing an Impala to a Concode??? Did the Impala have tires on it?

 

Been waiting for someone to try to pull this one on me. I usually buy
or trade because I WANT to, not because I NEED to or HAVE to.

Of the 7 I have owned in ten years, I still own 4 of them. Instead of
going over the 4 I currently own (and love), I;ll mention the 3 I no
longer have.


1. Chevy Lumina Z-34. Black. Bought new. Nice looking. Ran great,
good gas milage. Realiable. Broke a belt at 94k, kinda disappointed in
that, otherwise, no problems at all, until my 19 year old daughter
rolled it over a hill and totalled it at 105k. If you can convince me
that the Japanense cars would not have sustained similar damage in the
same crash, you might convince me to buy one.

2. 1995 Pontiac Grand AM SE. Black. Quad 4 four-cylinder. Not loaded
with a whole lot of options, but was a very nice car. Drove for over
80000, miles. Changed tires once, oil and filters a few times, and
that was it. NEVER in the shop for ANY other reason. Traded it for a
car I currently have owned for over nine years, with little trouble
out of it.

3.2003 Pontiac Grand AM. White. Beautiful car. Every option offered at
the time, other than On-Star. V-6. Leather, All-Power. Sun-roof.
Monsoon sterero system (awsome sound) Great all-around car. Traded it
at 60000 miles, (never in the shop for ANY reason), problably
foolishly on on impluse, for a larger new GM car, which in the 15
months I have owned it, has not been in the shop for any reason,
either.

 

You havent been reading some of the posts here, have you??? We on
occasion, have quests who visit here and make claims of something
like 9 million miles without any probems on their Toyotas. Guess they
just cant contain such excitement on the Toyota site, and have to come
over here and share their experiences.

 

That's quite a story, but one I've not experienced.
What I did experience from my dealer was so much pressure to look at the
Chrysler 300 they I no longer trusted them to service my 9+ yr old
Chrysler.
Other customers must have done the same, because my dealer sold his
Chrysler dealership and kept his Toyota dealership.