Detroit auto makers try some new tricks

I gave up on GM cars when I started buying from Chrysler.
Yes many aspects of GM cars are very solid, but many aspects are
unreliable and GM does nothing about it.
Then we have the very poor handling and drivability of GM cars.
A few years ago I had a 2005 Impalla rental for two weeks and drove it a
good mix of highway and city.
A very spacious car, but it's drivability reminded me of cars of the
early 80s. An OK car for chugging along on straight flat roads.
No way I would even straight trade my 10 year older 1995 Chrysler
Concorde for it!

 

The police package handles very well though for those who are
interested in handling (probably a fairly small percentage of that
market segment).

 

My brother in law kept "helping" his sister by buying "good" imports
for her. She spent a fortune keeping them running. I told her to
sell that Toyota trash and got her a AMC Concord at the State Auction
for $800. (yeah this was a few years ago!!) We put a couple hundred in
that Concord to bring it up to snuff and then she drove it for the
next two years and didn't put another penny in it. Then sold it for
$900.

 

That's very wise. Initial quality is just one aspect of quality.
I do the same, waiting at least one model year for a new design,
two+ model years if the drive train has been changed.
Sometimes it can be very difficult to determine if there is a
significant drive train change.
I've been stung by both GM and Chrysler recognizing when a significant
change was made and not waiting.
The internet is a great help here.

Chrysler now has a life time drive train warranty. That would not have
been of value with our Chrysler products since 1986. I had very bad
manual transmission problems with my 1981 TC3, thank goodness Chrysler
finally replaced it after the warranty because they didn't get it right
during the warranty.

It should have been of value when my wife's 2001 Sebring had the front
wheel bearings fail at only 30K miles and 3 months before the power
train warranty expired.
We then learned that wheel bearings are not part of the power train.
My, not all the power train is part of the power train!

 

"Steven Stone" ...

Has your friend contacted Honda directly regarding this? Not the dealer -
the company.

I've never owned a Honda, so I have no personal experience to share.
Everyone who owns a Honda *I've* ever known, loved theirs. Of course that's
a very narrow segment.

Also, is this a model-wide problem that people have battled without
resolution? Or did your friend just happen to get a badly built car?
Another factor is how well he/she maintained the car. That was apparently
an issue with the sludge thing for Toyota, but again, I have no personal
experience with sludge, not even the first Toyota we bought in 1987.

Natalie

 

GAH!

I really hope for their sake they learn and grow from having their asses
handed to them by the American public. I don't remember domestic carmakers
hitting this much of a low in the past, so maybe this will be a big enough
black eye to make them realize they need to change their act.

Natalie

 

"Ashton Crusher"
"gfulton" >

OK, even *I* remember when Japanese cars were called "crapanese" or
"Jap-crap" - but unlike domestic automakers, they straightened up their act
and gave the people what they wanted. Yes, Japanese vehicles sometimes have
*big* problems - the difference is what they *do* about it. I can forgive a
company making mistakes, but I'm wary of them when they clearly don't care
about my concerns regarding my vehicle. Toyota has recalled my 2000 Echo
twice - each time before I noticed a problem myself (One for the brakes, the
other for the floor boards). Further, they nagged me until I took the car
back in. *THAT* is customer service.

Natalie

 

Normally, the transmission is considered part of the powertrain.

Wheel bearings are generally not considered part of the powertrain for
warranty purposes.

 

Ever heard of "Ja-fakes"? some people sell fake Made in Japan
autoparts, which have same packaging and labels.

 

"EdV" ..

Nope, never heard of that. How do they pull that off?

Natalie

 

Bill your missing the point.

The idea works like this: The auto mfgr's wave the warranty over their
customers heads to threaten them to go to the dealerships for the oil
changes.
The dealerships rake in the bucks doing fradulent oil changes, selling
window
wipers and all kinds of crap. Then the car conks out and the customer takes
it to the dealer for warranty work and the factory doesen't pay the dealer
for
all the time the warranty work takes to do, so the raked-in big bucks are
spent on the warranty work.

The entire point of the system isn't to have a well-maintained car. The
entire
point of the system is to have a poorly maintained car that is in and out
of the shop all the time, so the dealerships have work to do, and the car is
so poorly maintained that 6 months after the customer has traded in the car,
(and 5 months after the dealership has re-sold the traded-in car) the car
conks out completely. In that way the auto makers insure that there isn't
a flood of good used vehicles on the market, depressing new car sale
prices, and they keep their dealerships happy with the service revenue.

Ted

 

Sometimes I wonder if it's as much a dealer problem as an automaker
problem. We've had American cars by the hundreds in our fleet since
forever. After about the mid-seventies we really have never had any
problems with them. I've had numerous American cars over the years
that I put well over 100K on and all any of them needed was the normal
routine maintenance. That's not to suggest no one ever had a problem,
there will always be some cars that something breaks on but it's
really quite rare.

In my personal car experience, I've had some experiences at dealers
that would make me not want to buy again if I had to depend on that
dealer.

 

Seven (!) in 10 years? What, you trade up every 18 months? Even GM
knows to build their cars so that most of them make it through the
warrantee period...

 

"Ashton Crusher"
"Wickeddoll®"

But the recalls came from Toyota directly, not the dealerships. How did
your vehicles perform at over 200 k, as Toyotas typically go? Our old
Celica had 280-something k on it when we *drove* it to the junkyard because
it was rusted out. Also, domestic large vehicles are apparently much better
than the "economy" ones. That's where I've heard the most complaints; that
domestic economy cars are no bargain. So I have high hopes for the Fusion
and a few other domestics that are out now.

I've heard that complaint from several folks regarding Toyotas, too. We had
a really bad experience at the Autofair in New Hampshire. They treated us
like shit, but since they were not the first dealer we've ever dealt with,
we knew it was *them* and not the vehicle.

Natalie

 

So you claim. I've never seen any evidence that what you claim is
true.

 

I've done that when we had 4 drivers in the house.

 

There are web sites devoted to the problem. Try googling.

 

We have many vehicles that go over 200K. One of my areas has gone
thru 3 ford vans all of which went over 250K on the original engines
and transmissions. Of the three, one of them had the transmission go
out at 260K, the other two were still running great when sent to the
auction.

Our old

 

Every Toyota dealer I've seen has just as large a service area as the
American dealers. If Toyotas never need work, what's up with that???

 

"Ashton Crusher" ...
"Wickeddoll®"

*snip*

Those are *large* vehicles, that you've mentioned. Any economy-class >200 K
with no major problems?

I've already acknowledged that domestic large vehicles are often superior.

Natalie