Detroit auto makers try some new tricks

Are you kidding? When they had the door locks that shorted and locked
you in the car and then caught fire they denied the problem existed
till they lost in court. They routinely denied the sludge problem
claiming the owners weren't changing the oil even when the owners had
receipts for the work. Just another example of how people just look
at Toyotas with their rose colored glasses on and at American cars
with a kaleidoscope from hell.

 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty"

DAYUM.

I thought *I* was cynical.

Natalie

 

Sure, sure... Except I know 8 people with '99-'01 "Sludgemaster" Toyota
Siennas. Not one has had a problem, of any kind, with their Sienna. How
come I don't know ONE person who's had a problem with the "Sludgemaster?"
Oh, yeah, I have one, too. No problems. None.

I'll buy an American car when I think it will save me money over a Toyota.
That means years of reports from my neighbors that buy Detroiters that their
cars run reliably. Years. Detroit spent 30 years pissing away their
commanding market share. Did they think they could get it back in a
weekend? If so, they were wrong.

 

The "potential" of the "Volt." Ha! Good one!

Of course, more seriously, I find it hard to be tempted by a car that I
can't actually purchase. GM is very late with credible hybrids. Vaporware
doesn't sell.

 

That is an example of a rock solid American car, I have worked on quite
a few but it was always a starter at 100K miles or something that is a
wear item. My friend has a 02(I think) grand marquis and it's a nice
highway car.

Negatives? There is no legroom in the back and the thing doesn't handle
for shit. It isn't supposed to though.


b

 

'93 3/4 ton Chevy pickup, 6.5L turbodiesel, 232,000 miles. One starter, and
a cruise control servo went out. 1979, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, 1970 Datsun,
that I maintained very well, mind you, spun a crank bearing and left me out
in the desert a long way from home. Datsun Land Cruiser, broke the front
differentrial U-joing, lost control of steering and damn near got me killed
a year later still in Jeddah. 1985 Chevrolet 1/2 ton pickiup, 6.2 diesel
that I put a Banks turbo on and drove hard. Had 228,000 on it after I gave
it to my oldest son and would still be running today, I imagine, if he
hadn't totaled it. Crushed the shit out of it in the rollover, but he
didn't have a scratch on him. The abolute worst cars I've ever owned were
Japanese. And the longest lived with the least amount of trouble were
American. Did have a very reliable German motorcycle, though.

Garrett Fulton

 

As if "American cars" is such a bad thing.

truly sad.

 

Now wait-a=minute. I dont understand something here. I thought the
reason people stopped buying American cars was becasue they did NOT
have the looks of German or Japanese cars. Your saying the reason
people dont buy American cars is that they look TOO much like foreign.
Seems something is wrong, somewhere.

 

Gosh, I drive mine right by the shop every day, dont even have to stop
there. Wonder what I'm doing right?

 

I feel the same way about leaving GM and trying to buy another brand
of automobile. I just dont have the resources to take the gamble and
lose. Been buying them for over 30 years and all they do is run and
run, look nice, and get good gas milage. I wonder what I am doing
right and what you are doing wrong>

 

I'll give you credit here. You at least admit that Toyota's and
Nissan's DO have defects, while there are some here who claim they
NEVER have anythng go wrong with them.

 

You gotta start reading posts here and elsewhere. How can Toyota EVER
be able to properly handle problems when they NEVER have problems to
begin with? If you believe things posted here, or articles written in
Comsumers Digest, then you know nothing ever goes wrong with these
Toyotas.

 

My 2002 Dodge Caravan with the 2.4 liter 4 cyl now has 99,700 miles on
it.

The only work in that time has been front sway bar bushing/link
replacement and the normal brake parts.

It's been the MOST reliable vehilce I've ever had.

Prior to that I had a 1987 Honda Accord that went through a starter,
alternator, two axles and the exhaust system by the same mileage.

Doug

 

And that's what it comes down to, doesn't it? You'd think the union
fucks who built those cars would understand that concept, at least.
Maybe if they struck for "you need to design better cars so we'll have
jobs in the long term" instead of "just give us more money so we can do
nothing and go home with a paycheck", things would be different.

Risk $25K? With Detroit's track record? Yeah, right.

My father did. Back in 1995, after 15 years of cars from Japan Inc.
That 1995 Olds 88 was a piece of crap. He replaced it with a 98 Odyssey
from Honda, a car he has to this day. Beyond scheduled maintenance and
a new starter he got last week, it's been as dead reliable as--well, as
a Honda.
[/QUOTE]

Here we go again with the same old BS from GM bashers who have nothing
better than to come to this site and attack.

Have owned no less than seven GM vehicles since 98 and "beyond
schedueld maintenance" have ALL been "dead reliable". Have never had
to replace a starter on any of them, so I guess I am one up on you
there.. I just wonder what I am doing right, or what you, and all the
other GM bashers who constantly come to this site and complain about
the problems they have had with their GM cars, are doing wrong?

 

There speaks Mike Hunter under another nym

 

It is mind boggling how the public and especially the auto industry
itself trusts receipts on oil and filter changes. It's a dilemma that
dealers and third party companies often charge for oil and filter
changes without doing them, but I would not be surprised at all if the
sludging problems aren't to some significant degree due to oil changes
*not* being done even though receipts show that they were.

Combine that with the fact that some of the problem cars have a
questionable 7500 mile change interval specified, and it doesn't take a
rocket scientist to figure it out (15,000 miles or longer between oil
changes that have been fraudulently documented by the dealers and oil
change stores).

I can only conclude that the manufacturers know all of this, but they
cannot publicly bring up the fact that they know that customers are
being defrauded on oil and filter changes - often by their own dealers.
IMO the manufacturers are guilty on 2 counts: (1) Screwing the
customer when they have receipts instead of going after the fraudulent
dealers and companies, and (2) Covering for the fraudulent dealers and
oil change franchises - IOW take action against those dealers and
companies instead of screwing the innocent customer.

That's not to say that certain engines aren't more sensitive to longer
change intervals than others - that's indisputable IMO. The fraudulent
change documentation just makes it a huge problem.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

The last Mercury I owned ('96 Mystique), Ford had put wiring in the
entire enigne compartment with the wrong insulation material (All
Contours and Mystiques). The insulation literally turned to powder
after a few years - you can imagine the problems that caused. They had
a special program to replace the engine compartment wiring harnesses up
to 100k miles. Unfortunately, the program was not created and
publicized until many of those cars were past that.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

I had the V6 Fusion as a one day rental, drove about 300 very fast
highway miles.
It impressed me very much, very well designed spacious body, very good
handling and power.

 

You mean, like my friend with the new Honda with the pourous power
steering pump housing, that leaks fluid all over his driveway ?

|I think it's cool. I'd love to drive an American car again, without having
|to run it back and forth to the shop. Seriously, I'm willing to give them
|another chance.
|
|Natalie
|
|
|

 

"Some O" >,

I'm waiting to see if it has any *long-term* problems, though. That's the
true test. I think it's safe to say that *any* vehicle will run well at
first.

Natalie