Detroit auto makers try some new tricks

You were joking, right? Walter P. reorganized Maxwell, and it was
renamed Chrysler. Plymouth was introduced a few years later.

 

Sure, there was the Opel Kadette

 

True, but read what has been written. They aren't talking about which is
better - they are talking about which one folds up more.

 

The last-gen Corvairs were outstanding cars - I owned three of them at
various times. Styling was top notch, and you got a Corvette-style
independent rear to boot. Power was there with the 140hp engine with
the 4 single-bbl Rochesters, and the 180hp turbo was a scream.
Unfortunately, the turbo was just too fragile, and the o-rings on all
the motors always ended up leaking.

 

My first car was a 1966 1.1 Opel Kadette fastback. Ran it into the
ground, at which point I bought a '69 1.9 Kadette Rallye. Outstanding
car. Drove it for years without issues. The pic in this link was
exactly my car: http://www.opelclub.com/html/opel_kadett.html

The late-60s/early-70s Opels were great little cars - German versions of
the Datsuns and Toyotas. The Opel GT was the "baby Corvette".

 

No need, I know its true. But it is and will forever be the
"Pintostang." It might have been developed into a decent car if it
hadn't suffered from gaudy badgning without performance to back it up
(Cobra II my ass!). Fortunately the Fox Mustang was developed well
enough (and quickly given enough power) that it isn't remembered as the
"Fairmontstang."

 

Well, if I wanted to be a nit-picker I'd point out that steel IS an
alloy ;-)

But since I know that you mean lighter alloys like aluminum and
magnesium...

Aluminum started being used commonly in the 60s and 70s, but some cars
used it way back in the 30s. Duesenberg, for example, had a 32-valve
dual-overhead-cam aluminum bock v8 with aluminum connecting rods back in
the 1930s! But you gotta remember, buying a Duesenberg in the 30s would
be like buying a Bugatti Veyron today- not something most people could
afford. Chrysler introduced an aluminum-block slant-6 in 1960 and
produced it for 2 years, but the advantages over iron didn't outweigh
the cost of the expensive die-casting process needed to build it. GM
tried with the Vega, but the engine got a bad rep very quickly. GM
finally got it 100% right with the Northstar family of engines in the
early 90s. Iron *still* has many advantages as an engine block material,
so quite a few production engines are still iron.

Chassis-wise, light alloys really never have caught on much for run-of
the-mill production cars, apart from suspension components. There've
been a few- for example the Plymouth "Feather Duster" from 1976 had an
aluminum hood structure and aluminum bumpers to save weight (and it got
close to 30 mpg, with a 4-speed overdrive and slant-6). But for the most
part, composites (plastics) have been the material of choice to lighten
bumpers and body panels where possible. Sheet steel is still used most
places. The biggest lightening of car bodies has come from thinning the
gauge of metal used in body panels, and also transitioning away from
body-on-frame construction. Again, Chrysler led the way on that by only
retaining one body-on-frame model beyond 1960, and phasing that one (the
D-body Imperial) out in 1967.

But that's not the whole story. If you look at curb weights of cars, you
might be surprised to compare old and new, though, because sound
deadening and "creature comfort" materials have more than offset the
savings in chassis weight. Safety equipment adds some weight, but not
nearly as much as sound deadeners and luxury equipment like power
umpteen-way seats, heated/cooled seats, etc. My 1973 Plymouth's curb
weight is actually within a couple hundred pounds of my wife's 93 LH,
even though to look at them you'd swear that the Plymouth weighed 800
lb. more. The Plymouth can tow and carry far, far more, but the car
itself weighs almost the same.

 

GM Sold the Opel Manta in the US in the 70s. Cute little cars, but not
the most reliable.)

 

n5hsr wrote:

More than that, Horace Dodge *designed* the Ford engines as well as
building engines and other components for Ford.

Walter P. Chrysler was an executive at one of the GM divisions (Buick, I
think, memory's vague) before setting off to assimilate his own car
company. He bought Maxwell and Dodge Brothers, and your timeline is
probably right, I just don't remember my Chrysler history that
precisely. It may not be fair to say that Maxwell "became" Plymouth, but
in fact that's more or less what happened. Maxwell had built a solid,
unglamorous every-man's car, and that's what the Plymouth division
produced as well. The Chrysler nameplate was the higher end of the line,
competing with Cadillac, Olds, Buick, and Lincoln. DeSoto and Imperial
completed the Chrysler lineup that lasted into the early 60s. DeSoto was
a nameplate that was fabricated purely for marketing, having no
"ancestry" in any other car company besides Chrysler. Imperial was
originally to be a competitor to the really high-end makes like
Duesenberg, Pierce-Arrow, etc. and specialized in building powerful
engines and heavy chassis that were sent to custom coach-builders (like
LeBaron) for bodywork to suit the customer.

 

Ooooooohhhh.... Barracuda! (with apologies to Heart).


I'd like nothing more to see Plymouth (and Oldsmobile, which deserved
FAR better than the treatment GM gave it) come back. But with the level
of competition and the overhead of carrying a different corporate line,
I'm doubtful. Certanily either of those brands will not likely be
brought back with an independent dealer network at any rate.

 

Just explained in another post. Plymouth became the level of car that
Maxwell had been, while Dodge, DeSoto, Chrysler, and Imperial (in that
order) were upscale.

 

The II sold pretty well considering what it was. Back in the "dark
ages", the Cobra suffered as did other makers' "hi-po" offerings.
Cosmetics ruled, performance was virtually non-existent.

The Fox cars are all pretty neat, in that a _lot_ of parts are
interchangeable. Mustang drivetrains fit nicely into cars like the LTD,
Zephyr, and Fairmont. Interior parts were also swappable.

 

That was a straight 8, not a V8.

GM built the all-aluminum 215ci V8 in the early '60s. I've seen the
Olds Jetfire turbocharged variant at car shows. Pretty high-tech for
its day.

 

I picked up a sports car rag in the barbershop one day, and they had a
review of their "top 50 all time cars." Of course it was heavily biased
toward true sports cars along the lines of the Alfa Romeo Duetto, MGB,
etc. and there was hardly an American car in it. But the Fox-based
Mustang made the cut, with comments to the effect that it was against
their better judgement to include it, but it was undeniable- the car was
the "motoring enthusiast's swiss army knife" because you could do
*anything* with it, especially given the aftermarket support.

 

Yep, I'm so used to typing "v8" that my fingers do it regardless of what
my brain is daydreaming about. I have had the pleasure of seeing a
Duesenberg J (non-supercharged) arrive and depart a local car show under
its own power for the last two years. An amazing machine- the engine is
about the size of a small piano. And the sound is like nothing else I've
ever heard.

 

You should read the Car & Driver review of the Opel in an early
issue. (They reprinted it in their anniversary issue last year.)
Scathing (and hilarious) review.

 

The story I've heard is Durant, who put together GM, lost control to
bankers on the board of directors. So he teamed up with Louis
Chevrolet to found Chevrolet, bought GM stock with the profits, and
strode into a GM board meeting one year and announced, "Gentlemen, I
control this company."

Chrysler wanted to buy Dodge from the widows after the Dodge Bros.
died, but didn't know if the deal would go through, so he introduced
DeSoto. When he got Dodge, the 2 brands were close to each other, and
even swapped places at least once in the pecking order.

Interesting trivia (to me at least): the first year it was out,
Valiant was a separate make, not a Plymouth.

Yes, to compete with Ford and Chevy.

And of course, Nash and Hudson became AMC, which was bought out by
Renault, which then was bought by Chrysler and cars sold as Eagles.

And Jeep, which was Willys, then sold to Kaiser, then to AMC, then
became owned by Renault when they bought AMC, and then Chrysler.

And don't even mention poor ol' Studebaker.

 

Lloyd wrote:

And Imperial has been both a stand-alone brand and a model within the
Chrysler line at various times.

Merged with Packard, but it was too little too late for both of them.

 

I've got a '93 5.0 hatch sitting in my garage right now. I'm the
original owner, and one of these days I'm going to restomod it. I'm
looking forward to that...

 

"Steve" ...

LOL touche.

The "Dusey" (sp?) had aluminum? The things ya learn.

Then why do a lot of late-model cars (Toyotas included) crumple way more
than my parents' cars (they didn't drive big cars, either)?

Very interesting, thanks.

Natalie