Detroit auto makers try some new tricks

So...anything Foreign. Check... Elmo, having read some of your more
'unique' post's, it doesn't look like you are looking at auto's with an
unbiased eye. If you like your Honda/Toyota/Subaru/Nissan's that's fine with
me, but don't try and tell me that my GM/Ford/Chrysler's won't last as long
as your's. It's bull and you know it.

 

Dear Pompous American Asshole,

I bought the first Corolla with 106,000 miles on it and drove it for 100,000
miles.

I bought the second Corolla with 72,000 miles on it and drove it to 230,000
miles.

Basically the problem with the check engine light turned out to be a hose
that wasn't put on properly at the factory. They kept 'putting it back on'
but did nothing to keep it from falling off. It would work loose enough that
it caused the engine to backfire and blow it off the rest of the way. They
finally secured the thing properly. Then I started having problems with
rust. The gas tank (!) started rusting.

And GM still doesn't know how to build a good manual transmission!

And you are obviously a pro-US beliver, and won't believe that a Jap car can
be any good. I have a female fraind that has a Oldsmobile that has only
72,000 miles on it, and it's doing the same thing to her. Check engine
light is on, she just spent 1100 dollars fixing it. She's going Jap next
time, she says.

And you are going on my Ignore list.

Charles of Schaumburg
Charles of Schaumburg.

 

Actually I'm Canadian, and way to show your awe-inspiring debate
skills...And, by the way, the comment's above aren't even mine...

Congratulations. From your post, it seemed otherwise. I also doubt you take
proper care of your vehicles.

So...the dealership fixed the problem. Check.

You should have had the vehicle rust-proofed. Though, I will admit 4 years
isn't very long.

Wow. There's a good reason to hate 3 entire fleets of vehicles
(GM/Ford/Chrysler). I happened to like all of the manual's I have driven.

Actually, I have heard from several people that there Japanese car is very
good, and I respect there opinion. What I don't respect is someone
disliking the biggest 3 auto manufactures in the world based on crappy
evidence, such as you have provided.

Congratulations to her for going Jap next time. Perhaps if she would get
the car looked at, the reason for the SES light being on, and it fixed
properly, she wouldn't have any more problems. But, she would. Because all
GM/Ford/Chrysler's are junk, right?

Wow. Does it make you feel more like a man to tell everyone that? Does it,
Chucky?

 

Larry Miller in the Phoenix area supposedly has a very good body shop,
but for mechanical repairs Bell Road Toyota is better and AAA
approved. One nice thing about AAA approval is that if there's a
dispute, the customer can require AAA to arbitrate, and the decision
is mandatory only on the shop, not the customer. It doesn't matter
whether you're an AAA member or not. BTW, AAA has their own shop near
Larry Miller.

 

The ONLY GM product I've owned did that. I've had several Toyotas. My dad
owned several Chevys and we went through similar problems with them when I
was a kid. Besides, it was obvious that the problem was with the design.
The problem with the check engine light was a hose that was not designed to
stay put. Then I started getting rust ON THE GAS TANK and in the wheel
wells. Again it appears it was designed that way. That appeared to be a
poor job of galvanizing the gas tank and it was placed between the bed and
the cab so that any rain would fall right on it when it was out in the rain.
For crying out loud it's a TRUCK, it's not going to get parked in some Hyde
Park garage.

I have no need to own a BIG US car. EVER. I'm single, and liable to stay
that way the rest of my life. A Corolla suits me just fine. And the US
still can't build good small cars. I'd never consider a Ford car, even if
they did start building 'good' small cars. Their track record is even WORSE
than GM. On trucks, Ford is better, but that's a separate division.

It was a hose that would work loose and then pop off. Should have known, it
was assembled in New Joisey, probably by corrupt union labor. The problem
was there were so many connections under the hood that when it fell off, it
wasn't obvious where it went back. Plus the dealer would have to 'reset'
the check engine light. After we fixed that hose (ever heard of a hose
clamp?) I had troubles where the Check Engine light would go on and off,
never did get that one figured out. Then the brakes wore out at 30,000
miles and started making noise. (I'm used to getting over 50,000 from
Toyota brakes.)

Yes, but if you look at what happened the Japs started selling solid state
TV's cheaper than the US sold the mostly-tube designs. Even though we had
invented the solid-state we didn't push it. It was the same way with
Amateur Radio. We lost National, Hallicrafters and such because Yaesu came
in with a mostly solid state radio called the FT-101. Nobody except Drake,
(and they were late to the party) came out with a similar solid state radio
(TR-7 I think they called it.) A few new people popped up after the crying
was all over. Even Griefkit is gone now.

Charles of Schaumburg

 

I've read it was Volvo who had a big part in the Fusion platform (Volvo
70) and the upgrading of Ford's 3.0L V6. Mazda uses same in the Mazda 6.

 

"larry moe 'n curly" ...

Larry Miller in the Phoenix area supposedly has a very good body shop,
but for mechanical repairs Bell Road Toyota is better and AAA
approved. One nice thing about AAA approval is that if there's a
dispute, the customer can require AAA to arbitrate, and the decision
is mandatory only on the shop, not the customer. It doesn't matter
whether you're an AAA member or not. BTW, AAA has their own shop near
Larry Miller.

LMC

Yeah, I found that out too late; after LARRY MILLER TOYOTA ripped me off
without fixing the '87's air conditioner properly.

Natalie

 

That's nothing but dealer profit. You should never buy that crap.

What about a guy like me who has owned ~13 GM vehicles, quite a few of
them new? GM doesn't get my business because of my own experience.
Nissan/Infiniti treats me much better.

b

 

http://www.plzno.com/413

 

Well, I've got 5. My '66 has 287,000 miles. My '69 has 162,000 miles. My
'73 has 460,000 miles, and my 93 has just short of 245,000 miles.

The best I ever got out of a Japanese car was about 140k, and the front
suspension was outright dangerous (idler arm joint was nearly worn in
two, and it was the third one the truck had had), the transmission
sounded like it was full of steel shot, the throwout bearing was
squealing, the clutch was shot, the A/C quit at about 90k miles, *AND*
it was rusting. The engine still ran well, though, I have to admit.

 

It was 84, and VW *never* made a minivan. They made a pile of crap that
came in three different but equally vile scents (microbus, vanagon, and
eurovan), but not a minivan. Its amazing that for all VW has done well
over the years, they have some kind of corporate mental block against
building a decent van.

 

Anyone who's driven an Hurst Olds 442 (or any other GM muscle car with a
Muncie 4-speed) would tell you that you're full of it. And so will I,
even though I don't like the Muncie nearly as much as the New Process
A-833 or the Ford Toploader.

 

No, the Fusion is a shared platform with Mazda (40 percent of which is
owned by Ford). The Ford 500 is the one that shares a platform with
Volvo (which is wholly owned by Ford). Ford also owns Jaguar and several
other "foreign" brands now.

 

Well whatever piece of crap they put in that Chevy S-10 was no Hurst.

Charles of Schaumburg

 

GM, Toyota, and Ford?

 

Muncie was the GM transmission division. Hurst builds shifters, not
transmissions. And even if the S-10 is a POS, its transmission probably
isn't even built by GM, but by someone like Asin-warner. GM knows (or
knew...) how to build a great manual transmission at one point in time,
though.

But the manual transmission belongs to the stone age anyway. Automagics
play better with engine controllers, allow better control over
emissions, and even get better mileage these days. CVTs are here and
getting better, and hybrids don't have manuals either.

 

Lloyd wrote:

That sentence doesn't make any sense. Opel, Vauxhall, and Holden have
*always* been GM, they're not foreign makes that GM has bought. Saab, on
the other hand, is now a GM product but was once an independent company,
just as Volvo and Jaguar are now Ford products.

 

Until import nameplates lose their appeal and perceived exclusiveness,
the USA brands can build vehicles far superior and nobody will notice .
. other than existing USA brand vehicle customers. There will always
be enough stories floating around about a friend or acquaintance who got
stiffed by a USA brand dealer for one reason or another, but if the same
thing happened with a Honda or Toyota, it would go unreported.

A guy at work's friend was looking for a new full size pickup, recently.
He was between a Toyota Tundra and a GMC Sierra. He chose the Tundra as
it was a Toyota and he'd had good Toyotas in the past, but the last GM
pickup he had had some problems that seemed to not get fixed to his
satisfaction . . . for whatever reason.

After looking at both vehicles, the new Tundra has three things going
for it: The damped tailgate "drop" mechanism . . . It's a full-size
pickup . . . It's a Toyota. Also, there are several areas where it
appears that Toyota (once again, as with the original Tundra) did NOT do
their homework very well. In the original Tundra, after much research,
they didn't give it enough power to compete with the USA brands, for
example.

In the current full-size Tundra, which is supposed to affect how other
brands make pickup trucks in the future . . . if anybody tries to use
the center seating position in the single cab pickup (with a bench
seat), if they are over 8 years old, they'll have their knees at chin
level due to the height of the center hump in the floor (which goes
nearly to the bottom of the instrument panel!). The single cab's doors
are big and bulky to close, yet the crew cab's front doors are more
normal in size. Step-in height, rather "step-up" height is more than
many shorter people can easily accomodate, too, especially with the
optional larger tires.

And then there's the 30K mile spark plug change to keep the emissions
warranty in effect.

In reality, the real competition which the new Tundra is chasing is
Nissan, rather than GM.

In other reported mis-steps, Toyota had to scramble to get their
production mix of models to match what people were wanting to purchase.
Plus "rejection shock" when potential Tundra customers asked for
something that was not in stock (model, color, engine) and unlike
"normal" Toyota customers, would not see what other Tundra that might be
in stock they might want. So, Toyota dealers had to learn what a
"dealer trade" was to save those sales, even if it meant going outside
of their dedicated distributor's area. So, in many aspects, it's "a new
game" for Toyota dealers moreso than the Tundra being "a new game" for
the marketplace.

Just some thoughts . . .

C-BODY

 

Tell that to Europe. 75% of European car sales are manual. I won't buy a
car that isn't manual. No matter how good a slushbox is, it isn't the
same as knowing how to properly drive and control your car.

b