Detroit auto makers try some new tricks

Not in my experience. not even close

 

Seems hardly a week goes by that I'm not replacing an evaporative
emissions canister assembly on a late model Toyota, hell my
sister in laws 2000 Camry is on its third one in 120K miles.
This is a common failure and has been going on for 6-7-8 ??years
now.
When do you suppose we can expect this 'good job of fixing the
problem thing to manifest itself?

Not bashing Toyota (I've owned three in the last 20 years), just
pointing out that your views may not be totally grounded in
reality.

 

In the absence of a clear list of engineering changes to rectify said
mistakes, I have my doubts.

Fair enough, but "had good luck with" a brand hasn't been my sole
criterion for purchase. I *never* owned a front-drive Chrysler or GM
product built in the 80s, despite my superb record with a half dozen
Chrysler products from the 60s and 70s (I still own 2 from the 60s, one
from the 70s, and a 49, FWIW). I avoided those because one look
underneath them showed them to be pretty marginally built (except for
bulletproof engines, but that doesn't help if the car falls apart around
the engine). I waited until the 93 model year when the LH platform
rolled out, and bought one even though it was a first-year model because
it was *clearly* better engineered in every way except the engine.
246,820 miles later, I'm still smiling about that choice.

 

That's true, but its still questionable engineering.

Nothing wrong with that at all- its still outside the passenger
compartment. And those tubes were designed to simply slide further into
the gas tank through the rubber grommet around them in the event of an
impact- without leaking. I've seen examples of them doing exactly that-
they work very well.

Yeah, even my beloved Mopars. When they started cutting corners on the
A-bodies (Valiant/Dart) in the early 70s, they shifted from a reasonable
filler tube to one that passed *diagonally* through the trunk, eating
into usable space. I always hated that one....

Well, tank-in-cab pickups *DO* have a higher conflagration history than
contemporary vehicles. And while drop-in tanks might not be
statistically worse, it still doesn't sound like a good idea to only
have 1 layer of sheet metal between the passenger compartment and fuel.

 

My brain has a remarkable cpacity for holding useless cr*p, yet I can't
remember birthdays, anniversaries, or the full definition of the Central
Limit Theorem to save my life. Go figure.

 

Ah. Thanks.

Natalie

 

"aarcuda69062"

Well, can we agree that we've had very different experiences with our
Toyotas? We simply have not had the problems some have mentioned.

Natalie

 

We didn't go by just our luck either, but prior to trying Toyotas, our own
(admittedly limited) gathering of information from others on the subject.
Since doing so, we haven't seen our research proven wrong.

Natalie

 

In my experience, they do by a long way. The last American vehicle I got I
dumped before 50,000 miles because I was working on it more than I was
driving it and it was already starting to rust at 4 years old. That was in
1999.

I've had 2 Toyotas that were personally mine that made 200,000 miles. Both
were still running when I sold them.

My Mom owned another 200,000 miler. My dad owned one, My sister owns two
that have just passed the 150,000 mile mark. My brother has a Previa that
has 160,000 on it.

Charles of Schaumburg

 

YES.

[/QUOTE]
YES & NO.
Since 1994, but not since VW invented the minivan long before that.

 

What a crock of shit. You must take excellent care of your vehicles...

 

Do you keep topping the tank off, to the tippy, tippy top when you
fuel the car?

 

YES & NO.
Since 1994, but not since VW invented the minivan long before that.[/QUOTE]

Basically the VW created the minivan in 1950. They didn't call it that, of
course, but the Type 2 is one of the most compact people and cargo carriers
for its size at the time. There were a lot of attempts to copy it, such as
the Fiat Multiplia, but none so successful. They make something called a
Eurovan today, but it's a far cry from the original Microbus.

Charles of Schaumburg

 

Remember the VW "pickup" that was actually a flatbed with fold down
sides with a Microbus nose?

 

Dear F*ckwad,

Then how come my 93 Corolla which I had right AFTER that lasted to 230,000
miles? And the 80 Corolla I had right BEFORE that lasted to 207,000 miles?
And why did I have to keep taking the S-10 back to the dealer to keep fixing
the check engine light before it was a year old? Why did I basically have
to threaten to drive the damn thing through the dealer's show window to get
him to fix the damn thing. Poor design and even poorer attitude from
dealer.

That's why you can't buy an RCA TV anymore, either. Same attitude. The US
stopped moving TV design forward by much. I remember guys coming out to our
house to replace tubes in our American TV set all the time. When the
Americans started transitorizing TV's it was too little, too late. We'd
assumed that we would always be number 1, that no one could challlenge us.
What happens when you assume? When you're number 1, you have to work even
harder to STAY on top. GM's attitude of "We'll make cheap crappy little
cars that they'll hate so much they'll only be too glad to move up to the
mid-size and large cars" failed when the Japs came along and made little
cars that were GOOD. And GM still makes crappy little cars like the
Sh!tvette. Ford, too. Considering both have divisions in Europe, you would
have thought they would have learned better by now.

Charles of Schaumburg

 

Yep, the first compact pickup. Got taken out in the tarrif 'Chicken Wars'
in the 1950's. VW sold only the Microbus in the US after that, but still
sold the pickup and the rest of the line elsewhere.

Charles of Schaumburg

 

Sounds like you bought the Corolla's with high mileage. Perhaps the
previous owner knew how to take care of a vehicle.

And the problem turned out to be what?

Well, we all know all Toy dealers are 100% genuine. Did you try contacting
the regional rep? Or perhaps a different dealership? There are more then
one.

What happens when people get to the point where all they know about cars is
"Jap cars are good", only because that's "what they hear"? Even if GM,
Ford, Chrysler improved 100%, there are still dumb-asses like yourself who
wouldn't buy them. Do you enjoy seeing all American companies being taken
over by foreign companies? I'm sure you will feel much better when your
grandchildren can only work at Wendy's.

Come on. I have seen SATURN'S go almost 400,000, and still running strong.
Same for Cavaliers. Your delusion that GM/Ford can't make a good small car
is just that, a delusion. BTW, where have you seen a new Chevette?

 

I can point to individual Chryslers that have lasted a long time, and I
can point to individual Hondas that were lemons from day one.

Individual instances like that are meaningless. It's the trend.

Statistically, there's no question that any random Honda will seriously
outperform, in the long run, any random Chrysler/GM/Ford. The buyer
doesn't know what he's getting when he picks a car, so he plays the
odds. That's the only thing he can do.

And the odds say, go with Honda/Toyota/Subaru/Nissan. Of course, many
people don't care how they gamble with their $25,000. That's their
business.

It's all about the odds.

 

Most cars made in the past decade or two will last that long. I had a
couple of GM cars that did.

OK, the dealer sucked. Most do. Your experience with one vehicle does not
mean that all are prone to problems. I know of a couple of S-10;s that have
been driven well over 200K with no major problems. I do not doubt you had
problems, but was it one thing or multiple? Was it poor design, or a single
faulty part that an incompetent dealer could not find?

RCA invented many, probably most, of the solid state components in the
Sarnoff Labs in New Jersey. RCA was bought out by the Thompson Corp from
France. They were still making picture tubes in Scranton PA into the 1980's
and selling them to the likes of JVC who was assembling TVs in the US back
then. The picture tube operation was shut down and consolidated with the GE
plant in Syracuse. Blame cheap labor across the sea for no more US
manufactured TV chassis, not poor design. Same with cameras, stereo
equipment, toasters, etc.

They still make the Chevette? Charles, you have valid arguments for 1980
but they don't hold up so well in 2007. We all have preferences, loyalties
and good reasons to be PO'd at one car maker or another, but every brand of
car made today is really pretty decent overall, but all still have some
individual pieces of crap.

I recently bought a non GM car for the first time in many years. Why? I had
some issues with GM but I was more influenced by the better value of the
other brand. Yes, it was built in the US, but has a high content of
imported parts. Still perfect in 23,000 miles.