Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half!

Hopefully, their GM pensions (and mine) will be safe.

We once had a guy that was fired 18 times in 17 years for drunkenness. The
Union got him back every time. They got him transferred to another plant in the
hope that a change of scenery, and management, would help him. I never heard
how it worked out.

And don't forget to make the numbers look good, so the big guys get their
bonuses.

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Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography

Web Site: www.destarr.com
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Bert Rutan? The guy that designed & built the rocket powered space plane? He
designs some of the wierdest looking airplanes you've ever seen, and they fly
like a dream. Sure would like to see what he could do designing a complete car.

Everyone in the plant I worked in was sent to Deming classes. Upper management
then decided that's not the way we want to do business & kept going as usual.

There's no incentive to do a good job. The goof-offs get the same money as the
hard workers. Ride the good horse and ignore the bad ones. When you ride him
into the ground, find another good horse.

In DC they wear suits.

It's not all that far away now.

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Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography

Web Site: www.destarr.com
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I goofed. MacReady was the engineer who made the first man-powered
flight. Rutan is another engineer with the prize for the first private
rocket dual flight.

 

True but I have seen some cop unions go out of the way for corrupt
cops.

What comments? I agree with you about unions in the past. Presently,
the unions are not as corrupt as management but it's a tough call but
the unions are a little less corrupt. But you're right here. Unions let
people get out of third world conditions where their lives are so much
fodder for the bean counters.

When I last interacted with union organizing to a little degree, I was
surprised. The board of directors was lined with the union leader's
family. Nice cushy $70,000 a year job being a "trustee." Not bad. And
the gritty address for the union was a phony front. They were located
in a suburban setting with locks on all doors. I am not surprised that
Walmart is winning.

The last union I belonged to was sold out in a sweetheart deal so nope,
I never sat in. This was a local of the infamous Teamster's which was
so corrupt it was put out of business. The head of the union was like a
little mafia character, you're a bright boy, he told me, you ask a lot
of questions. He was annoyed that I pointed out that he forced the
union to take a cut!!! in wages for the pensioners when the federal
government guarantees pensions!!! Needless to say, everything went down
the tubes.

I try but it's difficult. Management is usually ruthless MBA's. And the
unions - I have a lot of trouble with their street attitudes. One is
corrupt. The other is stupid. And I recently tried again with a very
famous national union to do some organizing for them.

 

Our previous primary care physician agreed the the US should have a
national healthcare system like most civilized countries, but said it
would be difficult to implement because too many people have their hands
in the cookie jar.

Perce

 

You are kidding right? Be careful what you wish for, as they say, you might
get your wish. Currently it is a buyers market for vehicles, keeping new
vehicle prices in check, because there is more capacity to build more
vehicles then there are buyers in the US. GM sells over 30% of all the
vehicles in the US, nearly a third more than Ford and three times as many as
the number three manufacture, Toyota. If GM went under the demand would far
exceed the available production effecting economies of scale and the price
of vehicles would skyrocket at least 25% or more. Those hurt the most
would be those that buy econoboxes, vehicles that are currently subsidized
by larger cars and trucks far more profitable vehicle sales. In addition
the corporate and personal income taxes lost, federal and state taxpayers
would have to absorb most of the cost of pensions, unemployment and
bankruptcies etc for those hundreds of thousands of employees that work for
GM, it suppliers and it dealers that would be out of a job..

mike hunt

 

Get real, who told you that unions are the problem, you boss at Wal-Mart?
Toyotas sell for more on average then competitive cars made by GM and Ford
and their nonunion employees are paid less and receive less desirable
benefits and pensions. The fact is less than 14% of all the workers in the
US belong to a union and more than half that do, work for the various
governments who are outside the competitive marketplace. Our problems
start and end with our own buying habits.

mike hunt

 

Actually that is not true, based on all the available facts. The average
personal income and the average family income is the US for all segments,
poor, middleclass, upper middleclass and the rich are all up, not down,
since the nineties. Same is true of the recent tax cuts. Income to the
federal treasury is UP, not down, since the nineties.

mike hunt

 

The consumer can stop that if that is what you believe happed. Don't buy
foreign goods or product assemble in the US of foreign parts, like Toyotas
etc.

mike hunt

 

Federal traffic controllers were fired for violating their CONTRACT. Like
many union contracts they had a no strike clause. Unions represent
employees and unions have only ONE right in that contract and that is the
right to force the employers to abide by the terms of that contract or pay a
price when they do not, period. Unions have no right to violate that
contract or they pay a price as well.. The union was advised by President
Ragan that if they violated their contract they would be fired, they chose
to go out on strike anyway and were fired.

mike hunt

 

Yup, it's not a good feeling knowing that.

Who's the cat in your picture? A baby leopard? For a moment he looked
like one of those half-wild Asian cats that make pets but this one
looks truly annoyed and feral. It's the first pix. The tigers I can
figure out I haven't done any 4x5 since I dropped a whole bunch in a
tank and ruined everything.

 

One hears stories like that all the time but management can fire, or demote
any union workers not performing their job up to the skill level required by
the contract to hold that job. If someone like that is on the job it is a
management problem. A union can not protect a worker who does not do his
job, come to work on time, stay through the shift, does not report off,
steals, fights, is insubordinate etc.. If you ever worked in a union shop
you should know that.

mike hunt

 

Q. What's the difference between a drunk and an alcoholic?
A. An alcoholic still has to go to Board meetings.

IOW, the big wheels with an alcohol problem typically got off much more
easily than the "rank and file": the former got sent for counseling, the
latter got fired. Maybe the "rank and file" are now getting treated more
like the big wheels in that respect.

Perce

 

Mike Hunter wrote: "One hears stories like that all the time but management
can fire, or demote any union workers not performing their job up to the
skill level required by the contract to hold that job. If someone like that
is on the job it is a management problem. A union can not protect a worker
who does not do his job, come to work on time, stay through the shift, does
not report off,
steals, fights, is insubordinate etc.. If you ever worked in a union shop
you should know that."

Amen

If management does do a piss poor job of following their own rules and
documenting an employees actions prior to firing him, then they left
themselves open to having to rehire the person including give him back pay.
This happens in both union shops and non-union shops.

Sarge
PACE Local 4-750

 

I have worked both on the floor and around middle and upper management,
Bub! Believe me, a druggie or drunk is not tolerated long where he has no
union protection.
Another little difference... the drunk is often operating heavy
machinery...IOW like being around a drunk driver for an eight hour shift.

After work, alla same.

And what's this "now"? I saw plenty of it in the sixties.

 

Oh it happens, I can tell you some stories that you would not believe
about screwups being brought back to work by union. Maybe not in your
shop but it does happen a lot.

 

Well..okay... but it's time to raise tax rates on those top guys so they
pay their fair share of taxes, instead of putting it all on us poor working
guys!

 

Backyard Mechanic wrote: "Well..okay... but it's time to raise tax rates on
those top guys so they pay their fair share of taxes, instead of putting it
all on us poor working guys!"

People making the money Delphi workers are making (28 dollars and hour) are
not the rich guys. They are part of the middle class.
40 X 28.00 X 52 = 58240.00 dollars a year base pay. This is middle class.
I agree with raise the taxes on the rich but do it by taking away all their
tax shelters. Make them pay a bigger share of their wealth in taxes by not
giving them tax shelters.

Those that free load and don't work and depend on welfare need top stop
sucking on the governments tit and find a job even if it is a minimum wage
job. Then the government should assist them with housing. At least this
way they will be putting some money back in the system.

Sarge

 

And a lot of those labor costs include labor from years ago. GM, Ford and
Chrysler didn't put enough money into their pension plans. And the cost of
insurance for retirees is really hurting them, too. It is estimated that it
costs about $1000 per car just for the retirees. The health insurance for
current workers is also hurting them. Of course, all of this is part of the
labor costs.

Revenues are not decreased all that much. And JetBlue and Southwest still
make money. Labor costs are one reason why the other airlines aren't making
money. The cost of fuel is another.

Jeff

 

Unfortunately the biggest force of all is the The Status Quo.

Depressing!

John