Couple questions on '96 Grand Caravan

Two things that have been stumping me lately:

One, the cruise control doesn't turn on anymore - indicator light on the
steering-wheel button doesn't light up, even. Shop manual AND owner's
manual both refer to a fuse for the cruise system, but I've been unable
to pinpoint it, and as far as I can tell, all fuses in both under-dash
and under-hood fuseblocks are functional. Any suggestions where else to
look? Everything else on the steering column works, so I'm thinking
it's not a loose connector, at least not a major one.

Two, I *sometimes* get only cold air out of the passenger-side vents
(dual-zone tmp control). Sometimes it works fine - usually the first
time out in the day - but most times it seems to just blow in outside
air. Sometimes it will randomly start working, but not often. What
would be the likely culprits? An air door, the slider control itself,
or...?

Do these two things perhaps share some common wiring?

 

It is a well known problen and you have to chexk for a company recall that
haven't been done. It has been done on my 98, but I presume it is the same
on 96. Good luck.
L.G.R.

 

Is the air bag light on too? Is the horn also inoperative? If so, you
may have the infamous spiral wire or "clock spring" problem that was
common when the van was redesigned for the 1996 model year. There was
a recall to replace the defective clock spring. The cruise control
buttons route through this wiring as well.

If you can get on Chrysler.com, and go to the "owner information"
section, you can enter the last 8 characters from your van's VIN. A
list of recalls that are not reported as being completed for your
vehicle will be shown. I would think that the clock spring recall
would continue to be listed if it has not been completed.

-KM

 

Horn works, no airbag light, but I'll check the recall info just in
case. Thanks.

 

Checked the site as suggested - this van DOES fall within the recall.
I'll be taking it in ASAP. Thanks for the info!

 

Alright... is this endemic to the entire car industry, that dealership
service centers are just useless gits?

I was ready to shoot someone over the bullshit we went through with this
van in the service center at the dealership we bought it at (Marine
Chrysler in Vancouver).

In the last few months, it's been again with the headaches at two
different Mazda service centers with the MPV work van.

And now this. I just sent the following email to the service manager at
a dealership that will be named later if I don't get satisfaction:

-----------------------
I dropped off my '96 Grand Voyager with your service department this
morning to have the clockspring assembly repaired (under a safety
recall), and upon picking it up was told that nothing was done because
their diagnostics did not return an error code on the clockspring, and
so it was determined that nothing was wrong.

I checked into this recall in the first place because the cruise control
and horn had both become intermittent, and I noted this to the service
tech when I dropped the van off.

So imagine my annoyance at getting back on the road and finding the
cruise control STILL DOESN'T WORK PROPERLY, and the horn is STILL
INTERMITTENT.

I discovered that if I turn the wheel far-left, the "active" LED on the
Cruise button will turn on and off, but only comes on dimly... and if I
turn it back more than half a turn, it no longer works; if I turned it
on when full-left, I can no longer turn it off.

Do your people actually TEST DRIVE anything these days, do they actually
LOOK AT the problems reported by the customers... or do they just plug
the vehicle into a computer and if the computer says there's nothing
wrong, they simply take the computer's word for it?

I really don't have the time to waste bringing this thing back
repeatedly, so how about you have someone COME AND PICK IT UP, and just
replace the clockspring (which the tech assured me repeatedly had a
lifetime warranty), and not believe what your computer tells you?

And this time, someone can bring the van back to me as well, because
they apparently can't be trusted to call to inform me when it's done -
if I hadn't called them myself at 5:45 tonight, I wouldn't have the van
back now. As it is, the shop was closed by the time I got turned around
and headed back, and nobody was answering the phone.

 

Let me explain how this works, if the vehicle has under 70k miles on it, the
clockspring would get replaced regardless. If the vehicle has over 70K the
DRB (scan tool) is connected and if there is a fault code for Drivers squib
circuit open, the clockspring gets replaced. The Technician did what the
recall said to do. Just because your horn and cruise don't work does not
mean the clockspring is bad.The clock spring has a tape wire in it that will
break over time, this wire consist of circuits for the cruise, horn and air
bag. The fact that you can turn the wheel to get it to act up tells me that
2 circuits have been affected and the circuit for the air bag has not broken
yet. You could tell them you want to pay the check out time to find out why
the horn and cruise is inop and if it comes down to the clock spring causing
it then you would get it replaced for free and no check out time would be
charged to you. Sending that letter to them will get you no where and there
is no reason to test drive it because there is no fault code stored for the
Drivers side Squib.Im surprised they didn't replace it anyhow, it is a throw
away part after the repair is done and does not get sent back to Chrysler.
My opinion

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

Let me explain how this works, if the vehicle has under 70k miles on it, the
clockspring would get replaced regardless. If the vehicle has over 70K the
DRB (scan tool) is connected and if there is a fault code for Drivers squib
circuit open, the clockspring gets replaced. The Technician did what the
recall said to do. Just because your horn and cruise don't work does not
mean the clockspring is bad.The clock spring has a tape wire in it that will
break over time, this wire consist of circuits for the cruise, horn and air
bag. The fact that you can turn the wheel to get it to act up tells me that
2 circuits have been affected and the circuit for the air bag has not broken
yet. You could tell them you want to pay the check out time to find out why
the horn and cruise is inop and if it comes down to the clock spring causing
it then you would get it replaced for free and no check out time would be
charged to you. Sending that letter to them will get you no where and there
is no reason to test drive it because there is no fault code stored for the
Drivers side Squib.Im surprised they didn't replace it anyhow, it is a throw
away part after the repair is done and does not get sent back to Chrysler.
My opinion

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

So let's see... customer comes in, tells you that two things related to
a third item that's the subject of a safety recall are intermittent...
you hook up the computer and get no error codes... and you just leave it
at that? You don't even bother to test the related systems? "Nope,
your vehicle is all fine, nothing wrong, have a nice day!"

I dunno about where you live, but around here, the horn is mandatory
safety equipment as well. It's intermittent, and its connection is
through the same point as a known safety recall. So... what, I should
just survive with some of my safety equipment intermittent until some
OTHER safety equipment fails, THEN I can get both fixed?

 

Yep - it sucks. Problem is obviously a bad clock spring, but because
the computer doesn't see the problem, nothing is done. Inexcusable.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

The Tech was following the procedure, Dont get mad at me, I was the one
telling you about the recall!!!! The related symptom would have been a
charge to you, did you authorize them to proceed with the diagnostics?

You have the option to have the horn circuit checked out, did you mention
to them that your horn is a safety issue and you will pay the diagnostic fee
to have it checked??

Yes around here it is a safety issue as well.As I said, you could have
elected to have the Technician check the system out and if it were the
clockspring that is at fault you would have got it for free.

 

Sorry, I'm not mad at you... it was more of a rhetorical "you".

For me to authorize them to do anything, they would have had to have
called me. I dropped the van off at 8:30am for a 9:15 appointment. I
doubt they spent more than half an hour on it. Not only did nobody call
me to tell me they'd found nothing wrong and ask if I wanted them to dig
deeper, but nobody called to tell me it was ready to be picked up.

As I noted, too, I didn't just drop it off and say, "Here, fix this
recall problem". I told them what was wrong, and told them it had been
suggested to me that it may be related to a recall issue, so they knew
(or at least, my "service advisor" knew) why I had brought it down in
the first place.

If they'd called to tell me all this early in the day, maybe I could
have asked them to dig further... instead, I finally had to call them,
15 minutes before the service center closed, so it would have been too
late to do anything about it unless I wanted to leave my van there
another day.

 

The tech I dealt with called me back this evening, in response to my
email... he basically told me the same thing as 'maxpower' did, that
replacement was only done if the diagnostic computer showed an error on
the airbag circuit.

I just sent the following email back (since they're now closed again for
the night):

-------------
I have a followup question from my conversation with John this evening:
what happens if the clockspring airbag circuit in my Voyager fails
*during* an accident?

Seems to me when you have a known failure issue with a SAFETY-RELATED
component, it's prudent to just replace it anyway? I don't recall Ford
replacing Firestone tires ONLY after they showed signs of failure. I
know when I got a recall notice for the seatbelts in my seven-year-old
(at the time) Accord, Honda simply replaced the specified components;
they didn't test them first to see if they might fail, or tell me to
wait until there was actually a problem before they'd replace them.

I don't like the idea of chancing that my safety equipment MAY NOT work
when it's required to, because of a component that's known to be prone
to failure, just because your computer says it's not a problem NOW.

Is Chrysler willing to take that risk with the safety of myself and my
family?

 

Well, I got an email back from the service manager today... they've
agreed to replace the clockspring anyway. Calling now to set up a new
appointment...

 

Good - that's what should have happened.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

the tech that looked at your van lost out on some customer pay work and did so
because some service writer did not write up the van correctly shame on him

 

Y'know, this is the thing: I have never, NEVER had a good experience
with a dealership service shop. I've dealt with two different service
centers with this Voyager, and two different ones with my Mazda MPV work
van, and both have been utter clusterfucks.

Actually, there is one exception: when I took my '87 Accord in to Marv
Jones Honda in Maple Ridge, BC, for a safety recall on the fuel-filler
neck, they did the job in good time, with no hassles. Props to them.
Too bad they can't handle Chrysler recalls.

 

Oh!!!!!! you are LOCAL!

I live in the lower mainland, and I have had pretty much the same
experiences as you when it come to dealerships. Most seem to be utter
idiots.

HOWEVER! After a 16 year old crashed into and wrote off my 1994
Caravan, we purchased a used 2002 GC from Carter GM (it was a lease
return). We purchased the extended warranty (has already paid for
itself), and have subsequently had most of the work done at Carter
Dogde.

Both Carter GM and Carter Dodge are on Lougheed Hirghway in Burnaby
right across the highway from Brentwood Mall.

I can't say enough good things about these two dealerships. While
buying the car, we got a "no-nonsense" treatment. We asked for - and
got the "best deal" without all the games and haggling of other
dealres. The price was excellent.

Both the before and after sales service has been nothing short of
EXCELLENT. If we book ahead, we always get a service loaner - and NOT
a "puddle jumper" either!, we get a full size mini-van to replace ours
while we are having ours serviced.

If you have been disappointed with the service from other dealers -
try Carter Dodge! I do not think you will be disappoitned.

Other service locations....

Hyack Tire in New Westmisnter is EXCELLENT. A more hones shop you will
not find! And they do excellent work, which they stant firmly behind.
And all for reasonalble rates!

AND, for transmission work... BENZ Automatic on Lougheed Highway at
Laity in Maple ridge can, and will if required, rebuild your Caravan
tranny for about $1500 (plus tax). These guys are, again, excellent.
They fix so many caravan trannys, they have a dedicated team who work
on NOTHING ELSE!

Hope that helps ya!

 

I'll withhold judgement on the dealerships themselves... the one we
bought from (Marine Chrysler), the salesman we had was fantastic (dunno
if he's still with them - cat by the name of Reg Lake, would definitely
do business with him again). The only other dealership I went to with
my wife (since she was the one really doing the shopping) was Coquitlam
Chrysler, where we got a salesdroid who musta been fresh out of Used Car
Salesman 101. We left that place in a hurry.

Marine's (dis)service department was a whole other matter. We bought
the van in November; I took the van back there in May or June when it
warmed up and we discovered the A/C didn't work (of course it blew cold
air when we tried it in the test drive - it was about +2C outside at the
time... and it was time for the first oil/filter change, which they were
covering).

Well, after much battling to get them to even give the A/C a cursory
check without charging a small fortune for it, we finally left it with
them for the morning. When my buddy and I went back to pick it up later
that afternoon, we waited around for TWO HOURS while they tried to find
our keys... and eventually just coded a new remote for us and promised
to call if they ever found the original set.

In that time, we watched the guy ahead of us pick up his keys for his
brand-new truck that he'd just had in for his first service... and come
storming back in a few minutes later, upon discovering they'd left his
passenger window wide open when parking it, just before it started
pouring rain. His carpet and leather passenger seat were SOAKED. The
first thing the brain-dead servicedroid managed to come up with was to
hand him a roll of paper towels...

The real kicker was, after they'd decided they were giving up on looking
for MY keys and decided to give us a new remote, the manager brought the
new remote and key out to us (we did have a second key that they used to
make a copy), and practically THREW them at me, with an attitude like
*I* was putting *HIM* out! After we'd been standing around their little
hellhole for TWO HOURS because of THEIR ****-up.

A few days later, we did get a call from them: the missing keys had
turned up. Seems they'd given them to the wrong customer when she came
to pick up HER minivan... when the remote didn't work with her van, she
simply dug her spare set of keys out and used those. It was only days
later that she realized they were actually the WRONG KEYS AND REMOTE and
brought them back to the shop.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks.

I've been very happy with the Boundary Rd. Kal Tire store, actually...
we rolled in one evening, five minutes *after closing*, carrying the
flat from our car... the owner himself, Greg Thomas, came out, asked how
he could help... we explained that this tire had a habit of being fine
for days or weeks, then going flat in mere hours if you just parked the
wrong way. Well Greg figured it was probably just a loose bead, so he
took it in, pulled it off the rim, checked there were no holes and that
the rim wasn't bent, remounted it, loaded it back in the van, wished us
a good evening, and sent us on our way. No charge, no hassles.

We've taken all our business there in the subsequent 15-or-so years, and
sent all our friends and family there as well. Can't recommend them
enough! Go see Greg, tell him I sent ya!

That's a scary thought... that enough of the things fail to create a
whole separate cottage industry. We had friends with a '92 Caravan that
the trans *literally* fell out of it one night. Fortunately Chrysler
seems to have fixed those issues as of the '96, which is why the wife
was insistent on a '96 or newer when we were shopping.

But yeah, I'm in Pitt Meadows, so I've driven by Benz plenty of times.
I'll keep them in mind, too.

It does, thanks.

 

people don't stop buying hondas there will not be a chrysler to get recalls done at
they don't build hondas in canada