Coleman Fuel for emergency use in cars?

In the unlikely but possible event where there is an interruption in
civilian access to motor gasoline, are there any substitute fuels that can
be purchased for emergency, temporary use?

I am referring to fuels not normally pumped at service stations. A
possible source might be aviation fuel pumped at almost any airport, but it
contains lead, which makes it unsuitable for cars built in the last 30
years or so. They might not pump it into cars anyways even if its legal to
do so, which I doubt. How about Coleman fuel sold in hardware stores? Is
it just a low octane non leaded gasoline which might work in an emergency
if you baby the engine? Denatured alcohol is also sold in hardware stores,
but I doubt you could run it in your tank. Anything else, or should I
expect to pedal from place to place if there is a total boycott and service
stations refuse to sell their gas at any price?

Serious replies only, thank you.

Nomen the Megaposter

 

As a Coleman user and collector, I know that certain Coleman
appliances are designed to run white gas (Coleman Fuel) and also
unleaded fuel.

The primary difference between Coleman Fuel and Unleaded is the
additives. Some of us have tried using unleaded in Coleman appliances,
but when we do, there is usually a bad smell, and a greenish tinge to
the flame - no doubt from the additives in the gasoline.

So, Coleman Fuel is, essentially, more "pure". However, I would make
no guarantee as to how long your engine might last without the
anti-knock compounds and various additives that are put in to keep
fuel lines clean, etc.... I also have no idea what "octane" rating
Coleman Fuel would have.

And it is not like the old days where you could tweak the carb to get
the engine to run better. If you have a computer controlled car, then
it is likely to have at least some misgivings about trying to run a
fuel which will likely send very strange readings through the sensors,
and cause the computer to erroneously adjust the fuel volume and
mixutre - the algorhytem was simply not designed for that.

And in the US, Coleman Fuel is running between $4 to $5 per US Gallon.
Here in Canada, it is more like $12 per US Gallon, and then you get
dinged with an "eco fee" (another government tax-grab). So unless you
had a BIG bank roll, you would not be going far. Also, look at your
local wallymart. How many cans do they have on the shelf at any given
moment? 10? 12? 16? Not even enough for a full tank in a car. Even if
you could aford it, you would have to horde it quickly since anyone
with a coleman stove or lantern might want some in an emergency as
well.

Stay away from Jet Fuel. Jet Fuel is, essentially, a very pure grade
of Kerosene. It wont work worth beans in your car.

As to others, I don't know.

Best make sure your bike has air in the tires!

 

Hi...

I'd like to respectfully suggest that when things do finally get
that bad it might be a better idea to keep whatever energy you
have for more important things than driving...

How about boiling water, heating and refrigerating food,
and keeping as warm as you need to?

Think the very last thing you want to do is drive around advertising
the fact that you posess energy to waste

Take care.

Ken

 

Any gas wells in your area? You can run your car on the condensate.
BTW, gas is essentially BTEX. The T and X are available at the hardware store.

 

Why is it that every time the price of gas goes up some people think it's
the end of civilization? Unlike the 70s we don't have any gas lines, all
we have is more expensive gas. The market will work it out one way or
another. People will buy fewer SUVs and more small cars, the higher price
of oil will bring marginal wells on line, new oil supplies will be
discovered, alternative fuels will become more economical. We've seen it
before. The 70s oil shock caused people to switch to smaller cars and the
oil companies to find huge new reserves of oil. By the 90s there was such
a glut of oil that the price of gas dropped to near historic lows, which
caused people to switch from small cars back to giant gas guzzling SUVs.
Now we have a shortage, caused by those SUVs plus the fact that India and
China have developed huge oil demands, and the price of gas is up
(although it's still only half of what the Europeans pay). It will take a
while but things will work themselves out again.

 

I did not say "I" would use Coleman Fuel in the car in that scenario.


I have enough stoves and lanterns to do quite nicely when the grid
goes down.

All I need to get my hands on is a propane or kerosene powered fridge,
and I have the bases covered.

And I agree, rather than spending all your cash on fuel for the car,
you might need that case for what little food might be left as well.

 

/rant on

You have GOT to be joking! Here in Canada, just before we went metric,
early 1980s, gasoline was getting close to $1.00 per Canadian Gallon
(4.54 Litres). That is about 22 cents per litre.

Everyone was getting all set to bitch like crazy when gasoline reached
$1.00 per gallon. THEN we went metric! So when we went metric, the oil
companies proved, once and for all, that we are MORONS! The "Metric"
price was 25.4 cents per litre or about $1.153 per Canadian Gallon.

So much for social demonstration. We were suckered into the metric
system by the government, and by corporations who saw a chance to
hoodwink us out of a great sum of cash. Slick marketing.

As for "near historic lows", I don't know where you live, but I recall
gas being more like 25 cents per GALLON when I was young! About 5
years go, gas was running between 45 and 55 cents per litre. Now it is
going between $1.06 and $1.18 per litre. That is about a 135% price
increase. How much of a wage increase have YOU gotten in the last 5
years? 2%? 5%? 10%????

Even at 45 cents per litre, gas was about 400% higher than it should
have been. Oil companies make HUGE profits with all this supply and
demand crap. Problem is they LIE about the supply, and they also
control the rate at which oil is refined and distributed, so they can
easily create an artificial shortage - just like they did in the 70s.

Look at what you said MAN!

"Unlike the 70s we don't have any gas lines, all we have is more
expensive gas."

THINK ABOUT THAT! Yes, long lineups at the pump get in the way of the
oil companys ability to make MAXIMUM PROFIT. If there are no lineups
at the pump, then that means there is NO PROBLEM WITH SUPPLY OR
DEMAND! We are victims of the most elaborate con-game in recent
history. Oil companies are reaping record profits, and all at our
expense.

Did it ever ocurr to anyone that the Oil Companies problably already
have the technology for the next generation of energy supply??? What
they need to do to profiteer from it is drive the price of oil up so
high that they can charge a fortune for a simple solution, and people
will go for it! Like litte sheep who now believe that 80 cents per
litre for gas is "cheap", we will also believe that we MUST pay more
for an alternative energy source.

The bible was correct. Money is NOT the root of all evil - THE LOVE OF
MONEY IS! And the oil companies of the world have proven their love of
money without question.

Of course business has to make money, but OBSCENE AMOUNTS??? What,
exactly, are they doing with all that money?? Seriously, once you get
to a certain point, what does it matter is you make "more"??? If you
have TRILLIONS of dollars in the bank, what does $500,000,000 mean to
you? Not much. But to the rest of us who toil day in and day out, it
means PLENTY.

But all this is no surprize. Corporate America had had a loss of
conscience in the last 70 or so years. Outsourcing jobs off-shore to
maximize profit without thinking far enough ahead that there wont be
enough people left here with jobs to buy our product - so ultimately
our companies will fail. VERY short sighted. Oil companies are just
the latest sector to show their brazen disregard for the consumers
that put them on the map in the first place.

How many people will have to suffer for the sake of obscene profit
before the very fabric of society is weakend so badly that there is
societal collapse???

/rant off

 

Oh no...!... do I detect the glimmerings of another Conspiracy (with a
Capital C) theory?

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[...]

[...]
We are victims of the most elaborate con-game in recent

[...]

 

You live in Canada which has always had higher taxes gas then the US. I
paid US$3.19 a gallon for premium at my last fill up which is about 60
cents more then it was a month ago. A few years ago the price of gas was
$1.50 a gallon or less which in inflation adjusted terms is about as low
as it's ever been, see this graph

http://zfacts.com/p/35.html

In 1969 my father paid around $2800 for a new Impala, last year I paid
$40,000 for a new 300C AWD. The C is much more of a car then a 69 Impala
so a one to one comparison isn't quite fair. But the regular 300 with a V6
and RWD is pretty close, it goes for around $30K or 10x the price of the
69 Impala. So in inflation adjusted terms, $3/gallon gas is about 20% of
the price that people were paying just before the Arab oil empbargo of the
early 70s.

 

I would not call it a conspiracy at all. Apathy perhaps, but a
conspiracy?

Oil companies are doing what all companies set out to do - make
profit. Making profit is NOT a bad thing. What IS a bad thing is
sacrificying long-term viability for shot term gains!

In the short term, things look pretty good. But when things start to
fall apart, then it is going to get pretty bad.

Without checks and balances in the system to ensure its long-term
survival - AND long-term profitability - the system will be,
essentailly, "open loop". It will fluctuate wildly, and could very
easily go totally out of control. But this seems to be beyond the
vision of the MBAssholes who run said comapnies.

 

Thanks for that link!

Not being an accounting type, I was not looking at inflatino adjusted
figures, but thinking more of the absolute price.

Interesting information as well. It would seem to indicate that once
things stablize in the middle-east, that we should expect gas prices
to "fall" again.

I caertainly hope this is the case, because many people are only just
starting to suffer because of the high percentage that gas represents
from the take-home paycheque.

 

Avgas will work in car engines if you can remove the catalyst and the
oxygen sensor. 100LL avgas still contains ten times the amount of TEL
used in car gas at any tme. You will need to add a lead scavenge agent
such as tricresyl phosphate. If a FBO is caught pumping avgas, or jet
fuel, or even mogas into customer-owned road vehicles (as opposed to
its own ramp trucks) the state authorities can assess them for back
road tax on every gallon they have sold going back as far as said
authorities want to stick it up said FBO's ass. However they will sell
you a jerrycan full of fuel for non-road purposes.

Coleman fuel IS NOT just unleaded or white gas. It will run very low
compression antique engines but not any modern engine except a turbine
or a multifuel military truck engine.

Denatured alcohol is E100. If you have an E85 compatible vehicle you
are good to go. Otherwise it will need modification, probably serious
modification.

Diesel vehicles will run on Wesson Oil, other light cooking oils,
automatic transmission fluid, filtered crankcase drain oil, jet fuel,
lamp oils, thin industrial lubricants, and a bewildering variety of
other odd things. Some much more successfully than others.

If you are serious about motoring in an era of no fuel, get two
vehicles. Convert one to diesel with a full mechanical engine and the
other to propane with a non-electronic ignition. Hint: rather than
screwing with points distributors, get a Vertex magneto and a timing
light and learn to swap it out for the stock one by the side of the
road. You can wire up a simple kill button and leave the stock vehicle
wiring alone or in a straight propane burner just leave the ground
terminal disconnected and shut the engine down with the fuelock.

 

What's this, then

"Did it ever occur to anyone that the Oil Companies probably already have
the technology for the next generation of energy supply???"?


DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[...]

 

The idea that the Oil Companies have the next generation under wraps
is not exactly what I would call a conspiracy.

Bear in mind that sudden change of a huge nature is NOT a good thing.
If "cold fusion" was released tomorrow, then the results would be
devastating to say the least! Imagine the millions of people and
thoudands of support industries that would no longer be required?

Displacing such a large segment of the population by a new industry
would cause mayhem. There would be massive unemployment, and then it
would take time to train, or re-train, people to be emplyed in the new
sector.

There is inertia in society. A change like this has real effects on
real people. It has to come about gradually.

And all this can be done while various companies make profit as well.
Sustainable jobs, sustainable companies, and sustainable societies.
This is a win-win-win for everyone.

The only element that lends to the Conspiracy aspect is the concept
that someone like the Oil Companies would try to make OBSCENE profit
at the outright expense of, and on the backs of, the general public.

Like I said, profit is good. Gouging and OBSCENE profit is BAD.

I have no confidence that unregulated industries keep the best
interests of anything but profit in mind. Time and time again
industries polute the envirnoment. Not until they face very stiff
fines, and sometimes prosecution, do they back-off and at least try
not to damage the environment. Similarly, until industry is regulated
to ensure that the interest of the public is served, then there is NO
Guarntee they will have a conscience and regard for the interests of
the public. If they do, then that is a bonus in the current system.
But it is NOT mandatory as it stands now. This must change. If
industry will not regulate itself, then they prove that regulation is
required to prevent them from abusing the customers that put them on
the map to start with.

This has less to do with conspiracy and more to do with outright
greed. Planning a strategy to ensure profitability and future groath
is NOT what I call a conspiracy. Acquiring the rights to strategic
technologies that are key to the viability of your company and will
ensure its future place in the market is NOT a conspiracy. Even making
profit is not a conspiracy...

But lusting after the all-mighty dollar to the point that you gouge
the crap out of people simply because you can, and amassing profits so
huge that you could not possibly spend it all if you tried... Well it
may not be a conspiracy, but is certainly is a sin.

My take on sin is, if YOU want to sin, fine. However, why should I
suffer as a result of YOUR SIN??? You want to go to the depths of
hell, then be my guest - as long as I don't have to suffer for your
ignorance.

Just as there is "approriate technology", there is also an appropriate
level of profit and profitability. When companies clearly step over
the line, like the Oil and Gas industry HAS DONE, then they need to
have the reins pulled in. Period.

Now it is possible that there is a conspiracy. However, not
surpisingly, I can't see clear evidence of one. What we have is a
sitaution where we are being - effectively - held ransom by
profiteers. This situation must be rectified if society is to continue
to exist in a meaningful way.

Failure to correct this situation will eventually lead us down the
path of destruction. You want to fight WW3 so that the Oil Companies
can clean up and make record profits by supplying both sides (like
they did in WW2)??? I sure don't. Again it begs the question, HOW MUCH
PROFIT DO THEY NEED??? They are already the most profitable on the
planet. What real gain is there in draining the general population of
so much wealth that we cannot have a decent standard of living?? IMHO,
the only people that this scenario would appeal to are people who are
addicted to absolute power. They get their kicks knowing that they can
empoverish an entire nation just because they feel like it. The sense
of control is like a drug, and baby they are hooked. People such as
this have lost all sense of decency. They have forgotten what it is to
be human. And unless measures are taken, we will all continue to
suffer at the hands of heartless profiteers. They or no better than
heroin dealers. We are all hooked on gasoline, just as some people are
hooked on heroin. It is just more socially acceptable to use gas than
it is to use heroin.

 

But this simply isn't how most businesses and industries work.

In a shrinking market - and make no mistake, the gasoline market
is going to be a shrinking market one of these days when the
supply of oil gets constricted and the price skyrockets - most of
the industry players DO NOT and NEVER HAVE successfully
made the transition to a new or replacement market. Instead the
weak industry players get bought out by the strong ones as an
orgy of consolidation sets in and every year there's fewer and fewer
major players.

The idea that Exxon or some other large oil company is going to
stop supplying products made from oil some day and start selling
some replacement fuel - like hydrogen - is rediculous. The hydrogen
market right now is not large enough to interest companies like Exxon
and if we ever do see wide use of hydrogen cars, the companies that
are selling hydrogen -right now- will become the dominent market
leaders and the size of Exxon, and Exxon will enter a long long
period of shrinking - but they will hold onto what they have and
what they already know, and will just use their muscle to try to
get rid of their other competitors in the oil products industry.

Look what happened with IBM. When the PC revolution started
IBM as a company was never able to shake that big iron philosophy
and that is why IBM is not the market leader in PC gear, Dell is.

Ted

 

While I agree that the big oil companies don't have the next
technology under wraps and hidden away, I am told that Shell and BP
(British Petroleum) are big into solar energy. Supposedly Shell is a
major producer of photovoltaic cells. The CEO of BP is supposedly
rather evanlgelical about being green. I dunno about Exxon.

I would think that the cost of establishing retail point of sale
locations aka gas stations costs more that the backend production
side. So actually I think some of the big oil companies stand a good
chance of supplying the "next" fuel. I would speculate that consumer
backlash or even government backlash represent bigger threats to big
oil than so called "free market" forces.

Isn't Shell already making/selling alternative fuels both here and in
Iceland. Probably elsewhere. Before you laugh, I think Iceland is
regarded as a model future new energy economy.

As demand for new fuels increases, existing retail locations can have
one or two "pumps" installed and just take out old fuel and replace
with new as it makes sense. Kind of like how some gas stations have
a LPG tank and pump.

On the industrial production side, I would imagine many areas would be
glad to see older refineries replaced with newer, cleaner facilities.

Big oil has the bucks, the real estate and the politicians and so I
think many/most of them will be able to make the transition. I really
doubt though that they have it all clearly mapped out and already
decided.

Jay..