Chrysler's financial crunch

And what does the sticker list? I guarantee you, it doesn't list any
significant "German content."

The LX transmission is made in the US.

Did Kokomo move to Germany?

And Mercedes has NEVER, never used a 6-speed automatic.

So if I were you, I'd try to find more knowledgeable sources.

The German content would be listed on the window sticker. What is it?

RWD V8s. Sounds like a recipe to me. One GM is moving to (the
Pontiac G8) and Ford too.

 

If a Mercedes component is made in USA/Canada, then it's made under
license from Daimler.

Look at this window sheet (monroney):

http://www.unioncjd.com/detail-2008-chrysler-300-touring-2426379.html

There is a white box beside the "Bumper Performance" and "Smog Index"
information.

You may not see any text in the white box. Put your mouse in the box
and highlight it. This text will appear:

----------------
PARTS CONTENT INFORMATION
FOR VEHICLES IN THIS CARLINE:
U.S./CANADIAN PARTS CONTENT: 74%

NOTE: PARTS CONTENT DOES NOT INCLUDE FINAL ASSEMBLY, DISTRIBUTION,
OR OTHER NON-PARTS COSTS.

FOR THIS VEHICLE:

FINAL ASSEMBLY POINT:
BRAMPTON, ONTARIO, CANADA
COUNTRY OF ORIGIN:

ENGINE: US
TRANSMISSION: US
----------------

Even with a transmission and engine made in the US, the car still
comes in with 74% domestic parts content.




Look at the monroney sheet for this car (2008 Chrysler 300 C Sedan):

http://www.unioncjd.com/detail-2008-chrysler-300-c-2401517.html

------------
ENGINE: MX
TRANSMISSION: DE
------------

There ya go. That transmission was made in Germany.

The US gov't has apparently designated that a Domestic Passenger
Automobile is one that has 75% or more domestic content. Many web
sources quote that number, and so does this NHTSA document:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/CAFE/Rulemaking/NissanPetition2004.htm

Based on the above-quoted monroney sheet for the 2008 Chrysler 300
Touring Sedan, that car (and I would venture most any LX-based
Chrysler) does not qualify as a domestic vehicle because it has 26%
foreign parts content.

I don't believe the "sticker list" (ie the monroney sheet) is required
to show where the non-domestic content comes from.

So I'll leave it up to you to explain where the 26% comes from in the
above situations.

It is the Mercedes W5A580 (it was first made by Mercedes in 1995).
Mercedes is not going to let Chrysler continue to make it without
charging royalties or a licence fee.

You are so wrong.

Not only does Mercedes have a 6-speed automatic, they have a 7-speed
as well.

http://www.mbusa.com/models/class-overview.do?modelCode=cls_class_main

Right back at ya.

I posted a link to two window sheets (monroney) above. You tell me
how the foreign parts sources are normally indicated.

The 300M wasn't a RWD v-8.

The 300N concept was a RWD v-8 convertible, but it could also have
been (and I'm sure would have been offered in) a FWD V-6.

It was a gorgeous, classy looking car.

The LX-line is anything butt.

 

|
|> |> I have a 2000 3ooM with 20k miles with the original battery.
|> |
|> |20k miles?
|>
|> 20,000 miles
|
|What - do you only drive it on the weekends?
|

I don't drive it. My wife drives it.
It doesn't come out in winter or if it rains.

Steve

 

Then you don't know it it's fully reliable.

 

And *you* don't know if the airbags work in your car(s) either.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Hmm, my wife's airbag works in all our cars....

Ted

 

|In article <>,
|
|> It doesn't come out in winter or if it rains.
|
|Then you don't know it it's fully reliable.
|

Why ?

 

There seems to be some confusion. Here's from carlisle media:

This all-American Chrysler has an international flavor. The Chrysler
300 is assembled in Brampton, Ontario, Canada, with 75 percent U.S. or
Canadian parts and a German transmission. Its 3.5-liter engine was
built in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and the five-speed transmission was built
in Kokomo, Indiana.

A German transmission built in Indiana?

http://cgcomm.daimlerchrysler.com/plants.do?method=display&docId=322

Heck, the Chrysler 300s built in Europe even use the Indiana-built
tranny:

The first European-built Chrysler 300C rolled off the assembly line
at the Magna Steyr plant in Graz, Austria, on June 15, 2005. The 5.7-
liter HEMI V-8 engine is built in the Saltillo Engine Plant in
Saltillo, Mexico. The 2.7-liter V-6 and 3.5-liter high-output V-6
engines are built in the Kenosha Engine Plant in Kenosha, Wis. The
four-speed and five-speed transmissions are built at the Indiana
Transmission Plants I and II, in Kokomo, Ind., respectively.

http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-Chrysler-300-50th-Anniversary.htm

So who got the Kokomo plant? I bet you it's Chrysler (Cerberus).

Yes, they have a 7-speed and a 5-speed. No 6-speed. Not now, not
ever. The CLS uses a 7-speed. Do you need help counting? 7 is not
equal to 6.

Exactly, and it's defunct.

 

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! If anything, build a new platform and KEEP IT REAR DRIVE!

Yes, I own an LH car, and yes its been one of the best cars I've ever
owned (247,000 miles and still humming like new). But NO MORE FWD (or at
least offer RWD models besides trucks), and always have a V8 option from
now on!

Saying it over and over again doesn't make it true. There are now
"leftover Mercedes parts" in the LX cars. The platform has some
suspension pieces whose design is DERIVED FROM the E-class. End of
story. They won't even bolt on an E-class.

Same for the transmission behind the V8- its BASED on a Benz design, but
heavily modified and simplified, resulting in a pretty darn good unit.
Would you really rather have a warmed over 42LE with all its band-aids
and quirks? Not me.

 

This brings up a good point- not all Chrysler platforms are created
equal. Disgree with Trevor Creed's design of the 300 all you want (I
hate it too, but I like the Charger and Magnum), but he's right that the
Sebring/Stratus platform is a POS compared to either the LX or even the
old LH platforms.

Chrysler's big problem is that its been since the days of the Dart and
Valiant that Chrysler has sold a decent "starter" car that would lead
first-time buyers BACK for the next bigger better Chrysler Plymouth or
Dodge. Cadillac nearly got killed by the same thing- young people who
got their fingers burned buying a POS Chevy Cavalier would never
consider going back to GM when they could afford a Seville STS, even
though the STS was a great vehicle (and the CTS is also good, although
fugly like the 300).

 

MoPar Man wrote:

Yes, and the Intrepid R/T would get you the top 300M drivetrain in a
lighter (and IMO better looking in profile) car.

I can't fully agree there. The old ones, barring the unlucky people who
lost the 42LE roulette game, were quite solid. My wife's 93 Vision TSI
(first year, relatively early production, bought new by us in March 03)
has been excellent and still hums at 247,000 miles. The 3.5 engine has
never been open further than required to replace the intake gaskets (a
lazy afternoon's work done by me), and it gets a timing belt and water
pump every 90-100k miles. It burns less than a quart of Mobil 1 between
7000 mile oil changes. The original transmission even lasted 140,000 miles.

My only gripe is the plastic used for the AC vent louvers has started
crumbling and breaking, and so have all the ones in junkyards. Other
than that, even the interior is still very nice- dash pad, headliner,
door panels, and even the seat upholstry is not thrashed after all these
years and miles.

The downside to the newer LH cars, for me anyway, is that the 3.5L
engine was changed over to an aluminum block and made to be an
interference engine (valves bend if the timing belt breaks) at the same
time the 2nd gen Intrepid, 300M, Concorde, and LHS (later Concorde LXi)
came out. Only the Eagle Vision was dropped for the 2nd gen, by the way.

 

You're right about what the journalists DO and SAY and WRITE, but they
ARE NOT "CAR GUYS." They are "car diddlers" who like to drive new cars,
but don't really give a rat's ass about how serviceable they are or how
they're built. "Car Guy" implies someone who knows, enjoys, and
practices all aspects of car ownsership, primarily working on and
modifying his own cars. NOT someone who just likes new car smell and
whose idea of a job that is "too hard to do myself" is an oil and filter
change or a brake job.

 

The LH platform was able to support RWD. The 300N hemi concept from
the year 2000 was built on an LH platform.

As much as I love and grew up with RWD mopars, I have to say that here
in Ontario your a fool to own a RWD daily-driver car.

Until I get a house with a 3-car garage, I don't think I'll ever buy a
new car that's RWD.

My primary car is a FWD 300M. My secondary vehicle is a 2001 Dodge
Ram (5.2L, RWD). The ram is useless in the winter and it's
permenantly parked in the garage in the winter.

It is true. See my previous post.

And again, even if it's a Mercedes part made in a Chrysler plant, you
can bet the Chrysler is paying Mercedes a license or royalty for the
privledge of making the part.

Look on the window sheet of an AWD 300C next time you're at a
dealership. The transmission will be listed as made in DE.

 

And for the millions of people that live south of Michigan, why should
we be stuck with FWD because of the people to the north? FWD and AWD
should be a available for the subset of the population that needs them,
not the de-facto standard. As much as I love my LH and as good as it is
for putting around town and leisurely cruising on the highway, when
pushed hard it handles like a dumptruck compared to a rear-drive car.
Even my old 73 Satellite (which has copcar width wheels and front/rear
stabilizer bars unlike most cars of its era) handles a little better!

 

Who says you're stuck?

With the LH platform, you could have FWD and RWD without the high
center of gravity and the Tonka-toy, Fisher Price look of the LX
platform (and also without the in-built need for Mercedes chasis and
suspension parts).

Nobody needs AWD in a sedan. That is a marketing gimick.

Since I too have a '73 Satellite (it was my dailer driver before I
parked it and bought a '2000 300M) the 300M is light-years better
handling.

 

Here in British Columbia one is a double fool if using RWD to drive to
our mountain ski hills.
Actually there aren't many double fools here because I seldom see a RWD
vehicle at our ski hills.
I have now about equal experience with RWD and FWD.
FWD is the only vehicle I'll ever buy again.

Oh Steve, my LH has lovely handling, frequently confirmed by the RWD
rentals I sometimes get.
The latest RWD rental I had was a Magnum for 2 weeks; how lovely it was
to return to my great handling LH.

 

Really. My 1995 LH has been more than the equal of your 300m, except for
the air conditioner.

New cars are seen more often. The 300 killed 300m production so there
hasn't been a new one for years.
We don't have many 300s here, so Chrysler is losing it here.

 

FWIW, the 2nd gen LH car evaporators are known for developing leaks
after 5 to 7 years (entire dash has to be removed to replace).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Here's all it takes to make a 73-76 B-body surpass an LH (on dry
pavement, anyway):

1) 1" front stabilizer bar (Addco or equivalent)
2) 5/8" rear stabilizer bar (factory issue on most Cordobas and copcar
Satellites/Coronets)
3) good gas shocks (no need for Bilstiens or anything exotic)
4) the BIGGEST single factor: 15x7" or wider wheels with P255/60R15 radials.
5) Replace the big rubber front K-frame isolator pucks with
polyurethane, or (if you can find them) the Chrysler cop-car iron pucks.
The rubber-isolated K-frame was a *bad* idea on Chrysler's part, trying
to make the B-body ride more like a GM A-body from that era.
6) (optional) replace the rear wheel cylinders with the smaller-diameter
rear brake cylinders that Chrysler used on copcars of that era (I can
dig up a NAPA P/N for them if you would like). That prevents rear lockup
with the factory front disks and lets you get a lot more out braking
performance out of the car, more than you can get with an adjustable
proportioning valve, IMO.



Granted, the 300 may feel much better in casual driving, and I won't
argue that it is far more refined (the Satellite is about as refined as
a gorilla at a tea-party) but I've taken both the LH and the old B-body
to the limits a few times, and the B-body's limits are definitely a
shade higher and more predictable, IMO.

If you go too big on the rear stabilizer bar, you'll get a tendency for
the rear end to step out in the middle of a turn. For my car (smallblock
powered) the 5/8 bar (taken off a junkyard Cordoba) is pretty close to
perfect.

<sigh> Someday I WILL completely restore that car.

Its a little funny we keep disagreeing- Except for the LX cars, our
taste in vehicles seems a lot alike.