Chrysler 300 vs. Dodge Magnum?

I've seen 300s around here in W. Mich. but no Magnums. Out of
curiosity, are there any sales figures around for these? Are Magnums not
selling well?

Perce

 

I don't know the figures but wagons never sell as well as sedans, and if you
really need a wagon, the eye catching design of the Magnum reduces loading
room significantly. Thus the sedan version, Charger, is due out soon.

 

I've seen about 5 here in NJ. They're really nice and I'm considering that
or the 300C.

I wish they made the Charger they were showing at one of the car shows
several years ago and not the one they're going to be offering.

Oh, well.

Ken

 

Tom Gale's Charger concept that was shown on the car show circuit in
1999. Yes, a great looking car and much better looking than the brick
that will be coming out.

Chrysler had a LOT of milage left in the LH platform (including RWD
capability) that the Daimler merger effectively took an axe to.

Truth is, we would have seen lots of new cars from Chrysler in 2002
had there been no interference from Daimler. And they would have been
great looking cars - not the "novelty" look as in the LX platform.

In the late 1990's, Chrysler was making serious progress in upscale
branding and image, but that was all flushed down the toilet when
Daimler took over. Chrysler was then relegated to making volume
models that maxed out at $30 to $35k so as not to compete with
Mercedes. Trouble is, Daimler cut off their nose to spite their
face. More upscale cars from Chrysler would have competed with Jap
cars more than Merc, and Chrysler could have stolen market share from,
say, Cadillac or Infinity with more classy Chrysler cars.

Chrysler, with the 300M, was looking at the export market in Europe.
Daimler would have NONE of that, and did absolutely NOTHING to help
the 300M to be marketed in Europe. The "in-your-face" typically
American style of the 300C garantees that there will be NO demand in
Europe for the LX cars, which is exactly what Daimler wants.

 

Sounds like Daimler is a little nervous ;-)

Is the new Charger still going to be made available? What about the 425 HP
engine? I guess if they do make it for the Charger then this might be an
option for the 300C?

I wonder if the Pacifica will get the Hemi soon. Seems like people here are
stating that the current engine doesn't provide enough power.


Ken

 

Plans have already been made to put the 425 HP Hemi in the AWD 300.

 

Daimler would rather NOT build the Charger. They DO NOT want to
create more cars for Dodge. Daimler is reacting to pressure from
Dodge dealers - they want an LX car under the Dodge badge.
Daimler-Chrysler won't admit it - the official story is that Dieter
Zeitche gave the new Charger a green light because his teen-age kids
thought the old Chargers were cool and Chrysler should bring them
back. What a load of shit (and even if it's true, it's still a load
of shit that some German kids have that much influence about the
direction of Chrysler's cars).

Daimler wants to move Dodge away from cars and use Dodge for mini-vans
and trucks. Cars are for Chrysler (really only 1 type of car - the
300 - with several different models - all visually similar on the
outside, the way a lot of Merc cars are).

Dodge dealers have not been happy with Daimler-Chrysler for the past 5
years. They could have sold a ton of Chargers starting in late 2001
based on the 1999 Charger concept if Daimler had let them.

 

I agree. Shameful to put the axe to it!

Chrysler/Dodge had (past tense) the best looking cars on the
road...bar-none! Most apparently gone now! The Benz's have always been
ugly. Guess they can't have their "low-end" sister company putting out
nicer looking cars than their "high-end" line. Typical. Dumb down the look
of one instead of improving the look of the other. <sigh>

 

Perhaps Mr. Zeitche should look at the sales numbers for the Pontiac GTO. A
miserable failure by even the most optomistic accounts.

When the German's own it, it's their football! Sad as that may be!

Toyota didn't build market share by comressing it's offerings. Look at how
many very different models of vehicles they sell!

Possible...if that 1999 design kept true to the Charger heritage. People
that buy "heritage" cars (like the GTO, Mustang, Charger, etc.) are looking,
in part, for the car to "look" like it's namesake. The current 4-door
"sedan" model certainly doesn't scream "I am a Charger"! The Mustang sells
because it's unmistakably a Mustang (from all angles). The GTO doesn't sell
because it looks like a plain run-of-the-mill Pontiac.

 

That's called family resemblance. Not confined to Mercedes.

A C-Class and an S-Class are still different cars, for example, as are 3 and
7-series BMWs... Or are you suggesting they are not?

If you don't like a Merc for any reason, buy something else, etc.

What's the gripe?

DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[...]
all visually similar on the

[...]

 

A bold assertion. Purely a matter of opinion, don't you think?

DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---


[...]

[...]

 

I don't disagree that's it opinion. But, I don't know many people that
disagree with me on it.

 

Must be something in American genes...

;-)
DAS

 

True at several points in history: In the 30s with the Imperial, in the
40s with the original Town&Country, in 1955 with the first 300, in
1957-58 with the 300C and 300D. In 1966-1970 with the Charger and GTX.
In the mid-70s with the last full-size Newport and New Yorker. In 1993
with the first Intrepid/Concorde/Vision models.

I disagree. The "in" styling trend is simply one that is not as
appealing to me overall as the styling trends of years ago. But within
that trend, I'll pick the Magnum and 300c over *ANYTHING* else out
there. And in fact, I like it much better than most of the
second-generation LH cars, especially the sawed-off stub-tailed
square-trunked pinched-nosed 300M which was never attractive to me at
all. IMO, the best looking Chrysler products since the mid 70s were the
first-gen LH cars. I think that you have to judge the styling of the
CURRENT Mopars against other current designs. That means the Magnum
competes with this thing, which looks like an ill-tempered set of
venitian blinds on wheels:
http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/models/gallery.jsp?model=srx&df=y

and the 300c competes with stuff like this:
http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/models/gallery.jsp?model=sts&df=y

Can you seriously tell me that the 300c and Magnum don't win?

Yep. From the 60s through the 90s they looked like less-interesting
versions of a Checker Marathon. Now they all look just like your average
Nisshondoyota.

 

By my count, its been Corolla, Celica, Camry, and Avalon for like 20
years (if you count the Cressida before the Avalon). And the Avalon is a
market disaster. Now if you count Lexus and Scion, I guess you're right.
I will also give them credit for bringing out a 2-door Camry (Solara)
even if they did make it so butt-fugly about 2 years ago that no one in
their right mind would be seen driving it. Same for the Celica.

 

How about the other way round?

DAS

 

I don't think so. In particular, MB rear taillamp treatments on the
market this year look VERY much like Hondas and Camrys from 3-5 years ago.

Ah, found some supporting photos.
2003 Honduhh Accord coupe:
http://www.mbusa.com/media/images/main/models/CL500C_main.jpg

2005 Benz CL:
http://www.mbusa.com/media/images/main/models/CL500C_main.jpg

If those aren't clones, I don't know what qualifies. Yes, I'd rather
have the Benz (as a former frequent-poster once told me, I have a "feral
hatred" of Asian cars). But I'd rather have a '71 GTX than either of
them
http://www.moparmuscleclub-sa.org/images/MMCSA_2002/P9281823.jpg


Its all part of the homogenization of automotive styling. Very few
designs truly stand out anymore, and the Magnum/300C definitely do. So
do the Cadillacs and the Pontiac Aztek, but to my eye they stand out in
a BAD way. Kinda like the way a skunk stands out in a flower garden.

 

Obviously that's NOT the link I intended to put there. This is:
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/HondaAccordCoupe/Images/LeftRear.jpg

 

I see the resemblance but I am not sure it means much, since the MB lights
are an evolution of what went before. The shape also reminds me of one or
two other makers.

At the end of the day there are bound to be similarities since car designers
influence each other and also work within the same wind tunnel parameters
(unless you're working for a Detroit Big Three and don't give a toss about
wind resistance in a land of cheap petrol).

I think the Big 3 (I hesitate to say "US manufacturers" since that can
include, as you put it, Nisshondoyota) have produced some unbelievably ugly
cars, mixing plastic and metal rooves, for example, but I think in recent
years the products have become much more attractive -- in my eyes of course,
but I could find plenty of (European) people to agree with me.. .

I have mixed feelings about the 300C and the reviews I have read here in the
UK also tend to be mixed. The shape is a 'love-it-or-hate' style. We shall
see how it sells in Europe, as DC ramps up its Chrysler marketing here.
Maybe sales will never be high, but there are major precedents for this.

Both GM and Ford have, as you know, vast operations outside the US, but you
don't see a lot of Cadillacs here.

In this sense DC now is little different from GM or Ford, having separate
operations in US and Europe, with only some interchange between them.

DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[...]

 

Nope. You get Opels, Australia gets Holdens, and we occasionally get an
Opel hauled over here, face-lifted and marketed unsuccessfully as a
Cadillac (ie, the Catera). Our current Pontiac GTO is a re-worked
Holden- wonderful mechanically but given such nondescript styling that
its going to be doomed to about the same fate as the Catera :-(

Same as it was 30 years ago before Chrysler scaled back its own European
(and Austrialian, and South African) manufacturing and marketing
divisons. That's part of what Chrysler was going to "get back" with the
"merger" with Mercedes.... of course things turned out a bit differently.