Chinese rotors are junk

Ah. I see. I feel for you.

 

Yeah, but your boss would have been in a lot worse hot water than you,
regardless of how uncomfortable he made you guys. A few project failures
like that in a row and he would have been replaced. Ultimately, while
it may be uncomfortable for a while, it's always better in the long term
to let the morons hang themselves. It also never hurts to learn to play
the office politics, it's not that hard to do for a competent engineer,
after
all the incompetent ones have learned how to do it!

Ted

 

I don't want to get into too far, but leting the project fail simply
wasn't a option as there was no way the failure would stick to anyone
but who had the hot patato in their hands at the time. It was the
dynamic of the politics there. The guy wasn't a moron in other facets,
he just couldn't design his way out of a wet paper bag. A-good-at-school
engineer.

 

I think the situation is more complex than what it seems. These "junk
parts"
exist because there is a demand for them in the US. Big demand in
fact. Just look
at Walmart. Do you think people walk into a Walmart because they want
to do
Chinese workers a favour by buying Chinese products ? They want to do
themselves a favour by buying cheap products because that is what the
individuals want or can afford.

If American product is really better, they shouldn't be worrying.
People who want better quality will pay for an American product.

No offence intended, just my 2 cents worth.

 

Up to a point, you're absolutely right. But with the "global economy" it is
becoming impossible in a lot of cases for the American worker to compete.
In my business, the IT industry, the average programmer makes $60K/year.
The average programmer from India makes $6400/year (source: ComputerWorld
magazine
http://www.computerworld.com/industrytopics/financial/story/0,10801,84834,00.html).
At some point a legitimate argument can be made that the American worker is
having his livelihood stolen from him by being forced to compete with labor
from a third-world nation. It's nothing new -- it happened to factory jobs
a long time ago -- but when a college-educated experienced professional
can't find work, especially after having been encouraged to go into the
field because the need for IT workers was going to be so strong -- there's
something wrong. There's a lot of good people in that situation
(fortunately, not me...yet.)

--Geoff

 

I saw the same thing in Pakistan and India when I travelled there in 1975. Lots of
educated folks with university degrees that were under employed there. I still remember
the railway station ticket seller at Multan Cantonment, Pakistan who had a Graduate
degree in Economics. In talking with him it was obvious that he knew a lot about
economic theory. Unfortunately for him, his country could not use his skills.

Now what about stories in the USA about folks with Ph.Ds who drove taxi because it was
easier than searching for work in their field. I personally know a Ph.D in Physics who
has been teaching high school for about 20 years because he had a hell of a time
finding a job in academia where he could use his physics doctorate. He said the last
time he applied for an entry level job as a Prof. there were over 75 qualified
applicants!

Yup, your last sentence is an understatement in today's economy!

Ken

 

Why chinese worry about liability? A responsiblity or obligation is not
in the chinese dictionary. It's new word. I guess in this modern globalized
day even in US it soon will be disappered from the company desk.
A Bottom line is who gives a shit of liablity when everyone is look out for
profit.

 

Indian IT techies get a special visa from Bush adminstration to legally
work in US. THey usually pay about one third of an average American worker.

 

It exists, but as in any business world, if the government isn't willing
to enforce any rules, it's corporate anarchy - whatever you can get away
with. Whomever you can bribe. Which mafia people you pay off.

Lying to some company that has no way to enforce anything and has cut costs
to the point where they HAVE to go to China for parts - what can they do
if they want to make their deadlines?

 

The give-em-enough-rope-to-hang-themselves tactic only works if
it's done repeatedly. If you can't do that, then your stuck, as you say.
But if the bacon-saving is done judiciously, payback can be extracted.

Ted

 

worker.

This is true and what is worse is there's a newer class of visa that is even
easier
to get that has exacerbated the problem. But taking them away can also be
bad
as this can stimulate the outsourcing even more, and make the jobs move
overseas
even faster. So either way you get screwed.

Ultimately though it does boil down to consumer choice. I think a big
problem
today is that the number of products out there has increased ten thousand
fold
over the last 200 years, the average consumer now cannot distinguish between
quality and junk for most products. It was different 150 years ago when
most
of what most people purchased consisted of a rake, a hoe, a pitchfork, a
horse,
a cow, some chickens, salt, and a cat. Then it was easy to learn to see the
difference, today its not so people get taken again and again.

Ted

 

The US company I worked for, the end buyer could have had a serious problem
legally when the product was eventually sold in the USA.

 

This indicates that Bush adminstration is not working American people
and
his adminstration is controlld by corporations. See Bush doesn't
give shit
about American workers whether they have job or not as long as it
benefits
for corporation then his missions accomplished. This means AMerican
people those so called conservative are deceived by Bush's lying and
deception. Bush does not work for American people! He is working for
big coporation. He is
the President for the corporation not for american working citizens.

 

There is no plan to make sure job stay in America. As said in business
managment 101, only way to get boost the corporate profit is the slaming down
the wage. Question: what's way to slam down American wage? NONE!!!!!!!!!
Only way is to hire cheap chinese wage. There is no plan whatsoever in any
business school to suggest maintaining the current wage of AMerican workers!
AMerican worker's wage will go down which is the vision of this global world.
See people don't understand that they wish that corporations would go
all way to protect their wage. No way! Lee Iacocca will not do it in the future.
He will move all the factory from AMerica to china if he wants it to, and the
Geroge Bush will not stop it. Nobody in congress either.

 

This is the most rediculous amount of poppycock I've ever read.

For starters, why is it you are under the impression that American corporate
execs
WANT to send manufacturing overseas? None of them do, they are only doing
it because they have no other choice.

If the United States banned ALL imports and required all domestic
manufacturers to
manufacture everyting here in the US, then prices on everything would shoot
up to
the roof, and consumers would greatly slow purchasing. Instead of every
family
being able to have 2 or 3 cars, they all would have 1 car. Instead of
having 5-6
TV sets in the house, we would all have a single TV in the family room. etc.
etc. etc.

Now, for the advocates of the simple life, this might possibly be a good
thing. But
if consumer acquisition dropped to this level you would lose all those jobs
anyway.

The real problem is that advances in technology and robotics have simply
decreased
the labor hours needed to manufacture something, however the work week is
still
at the 40 hours a week it has always been. Thus if you have an economy
totally based
on manufacturing, to keep everyone employed you would have to reduce the
amount
of time they work.

The challenge is to find other kinds of jobs that people can do. The
problem is that
most of those jobs that pay as much as the manufacturing jobs require a lot
more
education. Since getting advanced degrees and such is a lot of work, people
on
average do not like to do this. Check out the numbers of high school
graduates that
do not go on to college. What are we supposed to give those people to do
for the
rest of their lives? They can't all be street sweepers.

Ted

 

Unfortunately, this type of B.S. is being taught to MBAs lately - the
whole system is imploding because academia is full of 1980's era teachers
who couldn't cut it in the real world. All about the profits and what you
can get out of the job at any cost.

Wages and employees should be the last thing you touch, but most people,
even the owners, don't really care about the company's existing after they
are gone.

That's not true for non-public companies. I read an interesting article
a few months ago and the jist was that the kiss of death of any successful
company is going public as that open you up to the cycle of profits per
quarter and shareholders and most of all, a board of directors.

The article went on to show half a dozen examples of successful companies
that are 100% U.S. labor and pull none of the typical corporate tricks
because the people who own it don't have to be some CEO or investor's
whipping boy. It also showed half a dozen that were like this and bought
into the corporate system - all dead or dying. Downsizing, shrinking market,
high employee turnover, the works.

Perhaps there is something to be said, though, for living within your
means. Nobody really needs 5-6 TV sets in their house. It amazes me
how many Americans buy things because they want them instead of need them.
No wonder our economy is failing. Everybody is leveraging their credit
as far as it will go and hoping to crawl out from under it. Someday.

Same differece, then. It's going to happen sooner or later. The problem
is, though, that once the jobs and companies are offshore, they effectively
cease to BE U.S. companies. If they were forced to stay here, they would
at least be here. I'd take 200 U.S. jobs(was 1000) at a GM plant over
0 anyday.

It occurred to me that there should be some legislation saying that U.S.
companies need at least 51% of their workforce to the in the U.S. in
order to be considered a U.S. corporation.

They are learning that it's pointless when people in other countries take
our jobs with a fraction of the qualifications. WE need a MBA - they
need a B.A. over in India. Work for years at school only to find that
every new job is being created overseas or under those visas.

$10K a year versus $50K a year? And you wonder why all those call centers
are being created in India. Those Visas and their being allowed to move
the workforce to other countries without massive tarrifs and penalties
is the death of skilled U.S. labor. As long as their profit margins
and earnings per quarter run their thinking, they will gladly do it until
WE are the third world country that has nothing but corporate headquarters
here.

When we allow companies to do this, we undercut the entire system. Why
are students so lacking in motivation? Because they see a future where
the U.S. turns into Israel. IE - PHDs sweeping streets because while
everyone is highly educated, the jobs just aren't there.

 

If they want to please wall street, if they want their bonus to be as
big as possible, they are forced to. Production generally moves overseas
because it isn't profitable *ENOUGH* in the USA to please the artifical
growth requirements. Not that it isn't profitable and would continue to be
profitable.

Also, many of the costs of having production overseas are so burried they
don't show up on the raw conversion cost figures that manufacturers base
their decision on. Scrap, engineering time, field returns, lost sales
for a variety of manufacturing reasons, etc all add up. And it has been
my theory that in the end it's no better than a draw cost wise after all
is said and done.

Production moves to china, price stays as if it were made
in the first world. The difference goes to improve the margin number
that in turn helps the stock. I've seen US made products side by side
with made in china competitors where the US made item cost less and was
made better.

 

How very true. Reagan era economics were the beginning of the end of
this country. Bush II will be the finishing coup de grace.

I worked for a manufacturing company that went public during the early
80's, only to be bought back out by the original family. It placed a
tremendous burden of debt on the company and as it stands now, it's
mostly owned by Prudential. And if the BSA ever gets in there you can
kiss that company goodbye. Serves em' right in reality - the current
owner/president is a horses ass who doles a huge salary to himself while
promising employees the moon and never delivering.

One disturbing trend that a friend and I are noticing in the I.T. field
is that they're looking for kids straight out of college with a new B.S.
or even just an MCSE. Why? Cheap labor. That's the driving force behind
what's going on in this country, cheap labor.

 

That's only half the down fall. The democrats have provided the other
half. Just like launching a nuke, more than one key is required.

Ever come across the GE bottom 10% method? Cheap labor is it's goal,
but it rips the most experienced people out of the company destroying
the quality of the product.

 

Yep - I know a few refugees from GE's locomotive and medical imaging
divisions. It's crazy.