Challenge every Red Light Camera Ticket!

More and more, especially in urban areas, signals and boulevard stops
are becoming merely suggestions that motorist follow/heed.

 

Good thing most states wont allow these as you have to be handed a citation in
hand in person at the time of the infraction by the officer who witnessed the
infraction.

Once in a blue moon, you read in the paper about the occasional challenge to a
citation that a cop mailed to the registered owner of the vehicle. In my
state, every single one of those gets tossed as they are "constitutionally
invalid". The problem is, most people just pay up and don't fight.

 

Would you pull over for one? I know I wouldn't. Too many loonies out there
pretending to be cops.

The state police in my state uses lots of different unmarked vehicles (Taurus,
Crown Vic, even a few Chrysler products) and they will call for a marked
vehicle to make the stop.

I think I'd just get on my cell phone to verify that the guy behind me was
real before I pulled over.

 

You must not live in an area with high traffic volumes. Simply
"redesigning" intersections isn't going to stop red light runners.

 

Many years ago I recall hearing that the German approach was to have
large numbers of clearly marked police cars -- to deter rather than
simply apprehend lawbreakers.

MB

 

About 10 years ago when I lived in socal I lived in Hacienda heights and
worked in Whittier. Using city streets instead of the freeway there was a
short (maybe 2 mile) section of 4 lane road with almost no side streets.
traffic would run at 60 or better. The local cops put a patrol car on the
shoulder. Sometimes it was manned, but sometimes it had a dummy in it.
Needless to say, traffic slowed down to the speed limit (40 or 45) because
drivers were never sure if it was a real cop or a dummy.

 

Maybe this is why I haven't seen a lot of these cameras in Texas: the
traffic code there states that if a driver enters an intersection
legally, he/she can leave the intersection legally.

Therefore, it doesn't matter if the light turns red while you're in the
intersection-- you don't get a ticket so long as the light was yellow
when you entered it.

There is no ability to shorten yellows to trap drivers so the profit
motive just ain't there.

 

How do you know?

Other than just you saying so, I mean.

 

Depends on the redesign.

If you redesign it so that one road passes under or over the other and
you eliminate the need for the signal entirely... well, I'd bet that
would lower the number of red-light runners to zero.

 

Sure there is, even so. To give you an extreme example, let's say that
there's a 50 MPH speed limit on a road you typically drive. The yellow
light at a camera-controlled intersection lasts only 0.5 second. You
may see the light turn yellow while you're a few hundred feet away and
(logically) assume that it's going to last 4-5 seconds based on the
speed of traffic, so you keep your foot in it, as you could probably
barely stop before the intersection without locking 'em up as it is, and
you will likely have cleared the intersection within 5 seconds if you
maintain speed. However, the light turns red before you enter the
intersection, and smile! you know the rest.

An extreme example, but the same sort of thing happens all the time with
RLC's, just not quite as short yellows.

nate

 

That would totally eliminate all left turn accidents as well.
Round-abouts minimize the severity of the inevitable accidents.
They're even starting to now bring them to this continent.

 

You haven't thought it thru very well. The yellow is there to warn the
drivers that it will turn red in a few seconds. If it turns red too
qickly, then entering the intersection "legally" (i.e., on the yellow)
doesn't apply (because there's this thing called "finite stopping
distance").

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

We've started to get them in Metro Detroit.

I don't understand why they're supposed to be all that great. For one
thing, it virtually assures that everyone reaching the intersection
*has* to stop. Not so with a traditional intersection, where people who
are traveling at the correct speed can sail through green light after
green light.

The intersection near my home where they've implemented this is a
relatively low-traffic-volume spot. I imagine it would be absolutely
miserable in higher-traffic-volume places.

Bridges with ramps just intuitively seem better to me.

--Geoff

 

Ever been to Boston? They had a few there when I was a kid (60s). We called
them rotarys. They have a modified version here in Portland, OR.

 

If you've got clear vision & they're designed correctly you shouldn't
have to shed more than 10% of your speed (seeing as it's a 4 way
yield). I've been through Europe where the roundabout is a slightly
raised (4" round mound in the middle of an intersection. on off hours
I've seen many people drive through at full speed.

The problem with round-abouts (true round-abouts & not these 1/4 round
affairs) is that poor drivers don't try to "merge", they stop & wait
for a large gap.

"If" roadway etiquette is followed a large number of people can pass
through with minimal interruption and greater safety.

(bad drivers can totally screw up round-abouts though. When I was in
the UK this past winter 3 drivers were banned from a private tunnel's
round-about b/c monitoring determined that those 3 were responsible
for nearly 60% of the morning's delay's! this was a tunnel used by
thousands).

And yes, Bridges with ramps are "better" unless you're the taxpayer
who's got to pay for them or look at them. But with many North
American Drivers or newer European drivers (those who've gotten their
licenses in the past 5 years) round-abouts are terrors.

 

One of the news magazine took a look at several of the lights people were
complaining about. The yellows were not abnormally short for the speed of
the intersection compared with intersections without cameras.

 

You specifically remember it wrong. There were a bunch of complaints about
short yellow suspicions but when investigated they were actually longer
yellows in some cases than equivalent intersections with no cameras. You
probably heard the promo for the report, but not the actual report which
found there was nothing to the short yellow complaints except for drivers
going thru red lights on purpose.

They just installed red light cameras in Cary, NC. The cameras also detect
speed though tickets aren't given for speed violations. It is incredible
how badly people drive. 65 mph when they should be going 45 on a busy road.
Right thru red lights. The cameras have a caught a bunch of accidents on
film too. Should make litigation easy.

In London there are cameras all over the place. Has reduced crime in London
though people complain the crime has just moved to cities without cameras.

 

And is that practical?

 

See, that's exactly the problem. Around here, we have a lot of 'Yield'
signs placed where stop signs should be. People who don't ignore the
yield signs routinely (same ones who roll through stop signs) are
conditioned to stop for them. I am, I must confess. The yield sign
doesn't evoke the 'proper' behavior as assumed by the roundabout design.

I submit that waiting for people to start exhibiting the proper behavior
will be pretty hopeless.

Around here, proper roadway etiquette means that you resist the urge to
give somebody the finger while you cut them off!

All kidding aside, if you don't drive pretty defensively (and somewhat
aggressively) you're in for more than your fair share of wreckage around
here. I've not owned a single vehicle that hasn't been struck in the
rear at least once by somebody else, and believe me, it isn't because
I'm not going fast enough!

The roundabout thing is a nice idea, but I sure wouldn't want one at
a major intersection, and I'm not convinced that they're a good idea
anywhere else, given the conditions on the local roadways. In good
weather, they can be difficult at best. When things are covered with
ice for the four months or so that can happen here, the roundabout is
going to be synonymous with 'traffic jam'.

--Geoff

 

Around Detroit you are guaranteed to have someone drive through what is
very clearly a red light. I see it everyday on my commute. When you
are at a light and see a green you have to always be on the look out for
some jackass that thinks they can beat the light.

You mean build bridges and ramps all over Telegraph or Woodward? What a
brilliant idea that would be. Not!

I've been driving for 16 years and have only run a red light once or
twice and that was operator error (too much motor and not enough brake).
For anyone driving close to the speed limit, getting caught by a red
light is a non-issue. If this is too difficult for you, you probably
shouldn't be driving.