Caravan Transmission Replacement by DIY??

OK, here's a real ambiguous question to the group. My third car is a
91 Grand Caravan with 100K miles. It has been meticulously maintained
by me since new. I am a DIY with moderate capability. I have replaced
struts, half axels, ball joints, engine accessories, etc on my own. My
trans needs replacement. Does anyone have any comments for a DIY to
attempt a job like this? $1700 to $2000 is too much for me to shell
out. I can purchase a remanned unit for $600, but will have to install
it on my own. What do you people think? I know, it's a hard question
to answer not knowing my abilities. Has any DIY's attempted this in
their garage?

 

<<<dprkk
Jan 29, 8:44 am
OK, here's a real ambiguous question to the group. My third car is a
91 Grand Caravan with 100K miles. It has been meticulously maintained
by me since new. I am a DIY with moderate capability. I have replaced
struts, half axels, ball joints, engine accessories, etc on my own. My
trans needs replacement. Does anyone have any comments for a DIY to
attempt a job like this? $1700 to $2000 is too much for me to shell
out. I can purchase a remanned unit for $600, but will have to install
it on my own. What do you people think? I know, it's a hard question
to answer not knowing my abilities. Has any DIY's attempted this in
their garage? <<<<<<

The fact that you had to ask makes me lean toward advising against it.
The biggest question is do you have the tools it will take? You will
have to raise and support the front end of the van. You will have to
separately support the engine, because the mounts will have to be taken
off to pull the trans. You will need a jack to lower the trans and
raise the new one. Air tools are a definite plus. Other than the tools
and equipment, it's just simple mechanics.

 

Well, let me say how I was going to attack this. I plan to put the
front end up on jackstands. Right now, I'm not sure if this will be
high enough. I did some reading on supporting the engine with chains
tied to a bar which will brace across the top of the engine
compartment. I have a floor jack and I plan to buy a trans lifting
adapter for the floor jack. Hopefully, when the axles are out, there
will be enough room to maneuver. Given that this can be done, will the
trans just slip right out after the bell housing bolts are removed?
And will the new trans slip right in? I guess the big question is
whether or not I'll kill myself from what I described so far. All
comments are appreciated whether you tell me to go ahead and try or say
you're nuts and forget it. Thanks.

Ken

 

Seems a bit steep to me.. I just had my trans R+R and rebuilt by a local guy
for $950 nothing broken.. just "wear" parts ..... *however* it is a 3 speed,
he charges $1350 for the 4 speed electronic... I live in Chicago.. I would
think you could get a local shop to R+R a trans for $500 just about
anywhere.. Check around.. not a job you want to do by yourself.. *really*..
unless you have lots of time and patience.

May have to pull it back down to shim the converter.. stuff like that..
really nice to have help.. Some ideas courtesy of TM a regular here..

http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com/94tcpics/project.html <<<- thanks
TED

 

TED,

Thanks for your narrative and your pictures. They were EXCELLENT! I
will definitely print and save for reference. I am probably doing this
for the same reasons you are. This is a hobby for me. My caravan has
more sentimental value than monetary. I live in the Naperville area.
Nobody cracks a hood around here(not even for oil changes). They pay
to have everything done. When I'm working on my car in the driveway, I
always get "looks" like you're not supposed to be doing this over here.
Too bad. I will just take it one step at a time and if it takes me a
few months, who cares. Thanks for boosting my confidence. If you
wouldn't mind a couple questions when I get into this project, please
let me know your email. I can be reached at .

Ken

 

<<<Well, let me say how I was going to attack this. I plan to put the
front end up on jackstands. Right now, I'm not sure if this will be
high enough. I did some reading on supporting the engine with chains
tied to a bar which will brace across the top of the engine
compartment. I have a floor jack and I plan to buy a trans lifting
adapter for the floor jack. Hopefully, when the axles are out, there
will be enough room to maneuver. Given that this can be done, will the

trans just slip right out after the bell housing bolts are removed?
And will the new trans slip right in? I guess the big question is
whether or not I'll kill myself from what I described so far. All
comments are appreciated whether you tell me to go ahead and try or say

you're nuts and forget it. Thanks.


Ken >>>>

Your attack plan is sound. I would skip the trans adaptor for the floor
jack. Never had much luck with them. I'd spend the same money on a 2nd
floor jack. Don't forget to unbolt the torque converter from the
flexplate. Other than that, once the mounts are loose and the
bellhousing loose, it will fall right out. You'll need to pry it
slightly away from the block then drop. Extra hands would be good, if
you know some that are mechanically inclined. You'll probably have to
slide it off the jack once it's on the floor to have enough clearance
to get it out from underneath.

 

Ken,

It certainly is a small world ...

I too live in Naperville so can relate to the looks you get from your
neighbors. I am can personally dispel your comment on NOBODY doing oil
changes or cracking a hood open since I have 5 vehicles in the family and
try to do as much as I can on all of them myself. As if the 5 are not
enough, I also just did my nieces front brakes on her Ford and a pair of
starter solenoid contacts on my sisters LHS a few months before that.

I do not have a transmission floor jack, but if you need any tools, send me
email and I'll see what I have around you might need.

Bob

 

As someone who has done this, I can well advise against it. Getting the van
high enough (even with a VERY good floor jack) is nearly impossible. Floor
type trans jacks are difficul;t at best to maneuver (absolutely FORGET using
an adapter), you'll need a cherry picker to support the engine or a bottle
jack, believe me it ain't like working on a good old fashioned RWD vehicle.
Most shope will do an R&R for about $500 and for me it's money WELL spent.
Also you'll need some way to flush the cooling lines and trans cooler, etc.
By the time I was done puting in my Jasper I had spent more than just taking
it to a trans shop. The ONLY advantage I had is while I was that far I did
the ball joints and brakes.
Larry

 

Lots of DIY's (Shade-Tree mechanics) complete this job every day. I have
no idea if you will feel comfortable doing it, but get a copy of your
Haynes manual and it should be in there. The general procedure is just
to disconnect all of the linkages, wires, etc from the tranny.. Pull the
half-shafts. You may have to pull the sub-frame, depending on your
vehicle. Remove the inspection plate and remove the bolts that connect
the flywheel to the torque-converter (assuming you have an automatic,
which you probably do). Do one more check to make sure that the
transmission isn't hooked to anything anywhere (except by the
bell-housing bolts to the engine). Get a jack under the transmission (If
you're on a lift, a tranny jack.. If on the shop floor, a floor jack).
If you had to pull the rear engine motor mount, make sure to put a jack
under the engine too. Pull the bellhousing bolts, and yank the
transmission. Don't forget to add the appropriate amount of transmission
fluid to your new one after it is correctly installed but before you try
to drive anywhere.

-Adam

 

Here's another link for your perusal.... http://www.turbovan.net/Trans.html

It refers to the older minivans but has a lot of good ideas in it.. be sure
to check the pics of his engine support
http://www.turbovan.net/enginesupport.jpg

This one for a Daytona... (same idea)
http://www.turbovan.net/scottysupport.JPG

Good luck,, take your time .. and GET HELP !!

 

If it is just a straight swap, it should not be very difficult. Make sure you
have the proper tools and parts you will need. I would also do some research
on what needs to be done to swap the transmission. One of the libraries near
me has an alldata.com subscription, so I can look up procedures fairly easily.
Once you know what needs to be done, allow yourself plenty of time.

 

I did change mine on 89 dodge dynasty 3.0L 4speed tranmsion. .

In my experience, I lifted the car so that the tires are 1-2 inch in
air. I remove the transmision without any problem.
Putting it back is kinda tricky without transmision jack. I used a long
wood block to lift it. I lift one side, put something under the wood.
go to the other side lift alittle more. It took nearly 1 hour to mount
it on the engine. however you definately need a partner to put at least
one bolt as you lift and try to allight the engine and transmision.

On the other hand, i definately donot want to do it again.
Caravan might be alittle bit more difficult to work on since I expect
it to have less working space.

Good luck.

PS: I bought one for $125 ($75 if i did take it out) from a local junk
yard. I spend nearly 75 extra for seals fluids, filters, and it cost
nearly 200 plus labour ().
you can buy a used one from junk yards much cheaper than 600. you are
right it has its own ifs.

 

Thanks to all in the group who responded. I'm going to make this a
long term project and take it one step at a time. Like I mentioned,
this is a hobby of mine. I've done just about everything else on a
caravan, I'd like to attempt this. I'm doing it more for the experience
than anything else.

Has anyone had any experience with "alldataDIY.com"? I am wondering if
it it worth the subscription.

 

I would be careful about buying one from a yard.. My last experience
with junkyard automatic transmissions took about 3 tries before I ended
up with one that didn't fall apart inside the 90 day warranty. I
understand that I was probably just very unlucky (and the above was very
lucky) but.. I'd be very tempted to buy the rebuilt one if the price
difference is that small.

 

I would agree with you. It's a lot of work to install a transmission, so
having to do it multiple times is a huge waste of time.

 

I have hard copy factory shop manuals *and* AllData on-line
subscriptions on all 3 vehicles that I own as well as two relatives
whose cars I help them maintain.

Here is my assessment:
(1) For electrical schematics, you can't beat them. They are 100%
complete, and right out of the FSM (i.e., they are as specific to your
year and model as the FSM is). I'd take the subscription over any
aftermarket manuals just for the complete and accurate schematics.
(2) You get on-line access to complete TSB's specific to your vehicle.
Some people might consider the annual fee* worth it just for this feature.
(3) You get access to information and procedures right out of the FSM.
This is probably the weakest part of what's included (mainly from an
organizational standpoint). The plus is that what info. is there is
exact copy of what's in the FSM - not some warmed-over
aftermarket-quality crap. The weak points are
(a) other than the scehmatics, the information is not 100% complete -
what procedures are there are complete, but not all procedures are there
- but they hit the high spots - the major procedural stuff is there -
for example, they will definitely have the complete procedures and
illustrations on tranny swap right out of the FSM.
(b) The procedural info. is poorly organized, hard to find. I have been
able to find most things that I've needed with a few minutes of trial
and error searching - occassionally there has been some info. that I was
looking for out of curiosity (that is in the hard-copy FSM) that I flat
out was not able to find - can't be 100% sure if it wasn't there or if I
simply never could second-guess their poor organization of the material.

HTH!

*$25/year for first year,first vehicle; $15/year for any additional
vehicles and all annual renewals.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Hi Ken,

I'm glad you liked the pictorial. Your welcome to e-mail me, I use
my real e-mail address when posting,
and with a little googling you can find out all about me, not like SOME
people on this list, eh Nomen Nesco?

Anyway, most of my advice is in the link, but I would strongly advise
you buy a Chrysler transmission
manual. They sell them on Ebay all the time for a few bucks. There's
lots of good info in there. I would
also strongly advise you do NOT buy a reman. Your 91 transmission is a
'special' it has a speedo
takeoff if I'm not mistaken that's missing on later versions of those
transes. There were lots and lots of
little gearing and such changes during those years and there's a good
chance that some over the counter
remanufactured unit would be different, you might end up with the
speedo reading wrong, or the trans
shifting funny. And above all you must change the computer to the new
updated one, if yours is an
original. This is explained in the transmission manual.

I know that places like phoenix transmission advertise $600 reman
transmissions on ebay. But those
deals are almost, but not quite, scams. Let me explain the fine print.
First, while the reman is $600,
what they don't tell you is you also have to pay a $400 core deposit
until they get and "inspect' your old
trans. The fine print is if your core has any broken hard parts, they
don't pay squat for the core. And
the likelyhood is that they are going to find broken hard parts.
Particularly with your 1991 transmission,
some of the gearing and power shafts and such in it have been
superseded, so to them there's a lot
of parts in your transmission that they just can't use anyway if they
remanufacture it. Even if every
hard part in your trans was fine, your trans core is so old that
there's practically no demand for it anyway,
so to a reman shop, your trans brings nothing to them of value. So, I
think it very unlikely they would
want to give you any money for it. Secondly, they will not warranty
their stuff unless you buy a reman or
new torque converter. So now we are up to $1200. And lastly, there's
freight. To ship to you is probably
$200. So by the time you finish screwing around with a "$600 reman" it
turns into a "$1400 reman"
And, if 6 months later the transmission goes tits up, well guess what,
you are going to pay another
$200 in shipping to ship the bad one back to them to get a replacement.

Places like that only work where you can drive up to their dock, hand
them your old transmission, and sit
there tapping your foot while one of their techs opens up your old
transmission to see if they are
going to give you a core on it, then drive off with your reman
transmission. And install it in a vehicle
where the existing trans and converter didn't frag, so you can reuse
the converter. While such a thing
happens from time to time, it is rare enough that these $600 reman
houses don't have to worry about
it much.

Take your trans out and take it to a rebuilder that does a lot of
these. Visit the rebuilders in your area
and ask to see an Ultradrive A604/41TE that they have apart and are in
the middle of rebuilding, or have
just finished rebuilding, or are going to rebuild next. If they do not
have any Chrysler transmissions in
the shop I would be very leery of using them, as this transmission is
bread and butter for the trans
rebuilders, since there's so many of them out there.

One big advantage of using a local rebuilder and just paying them the
flat $1200 that they ask, is
that they are going to have a pile of parts transmissions they can
savenge parts out of. So when
they get into your transmission and need a collar or gear or some such
that isn't part of the
rebuild kit, they can just go to the pile and get a used one that's in
good condition, instead of
you having to pay the dealer for some $200 assembly that has a $5 part
in the center of it
that is the broken one that you need replaced.

You also might, while your still mobile, take the van to one of those
do it yourself car washes and
throughly wash the engine compartment and transmission and underside,
before getting into it. Make sure
of course that you avoid spraying down the top of the engine and the
ignition system.

Also, I can't emphasize enough the importance of a cherry picker and a
good trans jack. The clearance
to separate the transmission and engine in the compartment is a matter
of inches, and the engine weighs
probably 600 pounds and the transmission weighs around 100 pounds,
maybe 150 with converter and
fluid in it. You just can't do it unless all that weight is supported.
If you use the cheapie Harbor Freight
scissors transmission jack like I used, it will not work unless your
driving it with an impact gun.

It is true, of course, that if you don't have any of the tooling that
your going to spend at least what
paying a shop would cost for the R&R. In my case I already had the
cherry picker and air compressor and impact
tools and all of that so discounting my labor hours it was cheaper for
me than to pay someone to do it. But
I would still advise anyone who has done struts, axles, brakes, etc.
and who wants to attempt this, to do it.
Aside from the pure education aspects, if you take your time and are
through, I think you end up with a
better job than a shop can do. If a shop is doing one of these R&R
jobs and happens to run across, for
example, something minor like a broken plastic wire retainer, they are
going to just leave it, or a few places
might toss a zip tie on it. They sure as hell aren't going to spend
the hour going to the dealer and getting
the correct $5 retainer and putting every little thing back so that the
transmission looks like it's never
come out of the van before.

Ted

 

Ted,

Thank you for sharing your experience with me and the group. I will
pick up the trans manuals and do some serious studying before starting.
I was going to buy the cheapie Harbor Freight trans jack but from your
suggestions, I'd better fiind something more appropriate. Thanks
again,

Ken

 

It's not a bad jack if you use an impact with it. The problem isn't
that
you need a lot of force to turn it. The problem is that if you use
any kind of leverage on it, the jack will tip over with the
transmission
on it. If you don't have an air compressor, an electric impact
wrench will be fine with it.

Ted