Built like a Mercedes (?)

Sensible trimming fixes that ( as per my post ).

Yep... and of course, everyone does that, right?

 

Now then. I have done a little research and the figures are worse than even
I thought.
Even relitively light weight trains weigh more than two tons per passenger
seat which is about ten times that of a typical light car. This obviously
takes account of the weight of the engine or locomotive.
The very low rolling resistance of a steel wheel on a rail is partially
canceled out by the high weight of passenger trains. The higher weight also
means more energy used for accelerating and climbing hills although some of
this could be recovered by coasting and regenerative braking. Aerodynamic
drag is low for a train at moderate speed but increases rapidly (with the
square of the speed). Thus one may say that passenger trains are potentially
energy efficient, but in actual practice such trains turn out to be little
more energy-efficient than the motor car.

Neither private ownership nor government monopoly has been very efficient in
providing a passenger service at economic cost.



Huw

 

LOL, what makes you think they are not.

 

Some of the countries are poor and cannot afford subsidies for their core
export manufacturers.
Some do subsidise somewhat. An example is the USA some 18 months ago which
subsidised their steel industry against perfectly legitimate unsubsidised
imports from elsewhere. The US steel industry was/is inefficient but was
pretected by import restrictions. This is no longer needed because the price
of steel has risen drastically but at the time, and when it suited the US it
effectively protected its industry.

Huw

 

No, I _buy_ used cars and trucks that were made in America . . .my
current ride, a 95 Lebaron was given to me by a caring but slightly
mislead ( by the salesman) son.

As for the contempt you claim, how easy is it to make cars that suit
everybody all the time everywhere? Be realistic.

Now, compound that with a government influencing entity that doesn't
care if you live or die as long as they can restrict the manufacturers
and add to the cost of the car, the EPA, who only recently hired their
FIRST scientist.

You don't see the connection? We susidized Japan and German back into a
financial condition that would have allowed them to survive comfortably
.. . then we allowed them to move in and produce their products in
America, which is now a major portion of their profit margin.

Just since 1947 when I was born; the Studebaker, De Soto, Plymouth,
Packard, Crosley, AMC/Rambler, Nash, Willys, Tucker and Hudson car
lines have disappeared, along with maybe a couple I forgot. German,
Italian and Japanese vehicles, to name a few, have taken over.

The Whizzer, Mustang, Simplex, and Cushman Motor scooters, along with a
couple others, went out of production, taken over by Japanese and
Italian scooters.

Look at the problems Harley Davidson had with the Jap bike invasion.

Unions have been allowed to run rampant until they priced employee
costs thru the roof.

And NAFTA should never have been passed. It sent jobs America needs out
of country, and I believe it's a part of the cause of GM and Ford
losses and Chrysler now being a German car line.

Budd

 

Complete bullshit. As far as Ford and GM go, they did dig their own hole by
stuffing their heads as far up their collective asses as they possibly could
while Toyota and Honda were building fuel efficient vehicles at a loss to
get good at it but Americans love to drive and if they were forced to buy GM
and Ford, they would.

More showing of your lack of intelligence I see. There is a big difference
free trade and fair trade and there is no way to compete fairly with
countries that pay their workers next to nothing and have no concerns for
environmental impacts or the safety of those workers. The only thing that
works here are tarrifs and trade restrictions.

around.

I guess that the European industry isn't so perfect after all.

Complete horseshit. In order to be competative you need to be on at least
somewhat equal footing and that is simply not the case. Now if you are
saying that if America went full protectionist that it would cause a global
resession you are probably right but all that indicates is that the rest of
the "global" economy is really not much more than a bunch of leaches
draining the lifes blood out of this country. Quite sad really that we are
too damn stupid and greedy to correct it.

Sure there is. MS does it all of the time and we still have the power to do
it. The only thing that is stopping is is our GREED which sadly, will
reduce us to a second world country with nothing but a few very rich and the
rest of us quite poor within the next 10 or so years.

And if Santa Clause were real then their would be millions of happy children
throughout the world and both have the same base in reality. The only way
this will ever happen is through trade restrictions to force them to buy our
products or make it profitable to build some of them here.

What we need and what we will get in the current situation are two very
different things.

I agree but the rich don't really care as they will still be rich and
possibly increase their wealth from it and the rest seem to be either too
stupid or ignorant to do anything about it.

-- If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

 

What makes you think they are.

Besides, name a car made in the *3rd* world.

Graham

 

It's not the *countries* that pay those workers it's the factories that employ
them. Often owned by American companies. Americans love low labour costs for
cheap imports but only when it doesn't threaten their own jobs.

Graham

 

No, America needs to rein in it's trade freedoms. It's become too lax
in allowing other countries to bring their stuff to America while
putting rediculous tariffs on American imported goods.

Why is it "inevitable"? Global recession? It's time for America to quit
supporting dictatorships and communistic governments that milk the life
out of their peoples while packing the pockets of the elite few. Cut
them loose and let them flounder without American monies.

Budd

 

(SARCASM AT WARP FACTOR 30000)

Oh, I forgot, I can't comment on your god and master, the union. A true
railroad man you are.

(Sarcasm back to impulse speed)

Roy, did you ever stop to really look at a big part of why you can't
afford a pay cut?

Unions demand more, manufacturers raise prices to pay union demands,
unions demand more to pay higher prices caused by previous demands. Ad
nauseum.

Your own employers have gone thru the same crap themselves and now the
once mighty rail industry is a subsidized pauper... the welfare
recipient of the American industrial world.

Roy, part of your income is paid by every taxpayer in the USA thanks to
union demands.

Add to that a government that prints up dollars to try and buy it's way
ot of debt and bingo! Welcome to modern America.

Budd

 

AGREED!!!

It is embarassing to see our people in New Orleans still not getting the
help they need, while this country send billions of dollars around the world
to aid other countries.
That includes that sand pit as well.

Roy

 

I didn't know that cars were the only things built outside of the US

 

We need to keep all our industries for ourselves. Sorry, Rachel, but
that includes Canada. GM, Ford and DC/Chrysler need to cut the bonds
and let each country fend for themselves.

DC/Chrysler was the first, in America, to offer gasoline subsidies for
new owners. It's curious that many performance cars from the 60 and
early 70's got as god or better economy than the overweight,
underpowered crap called a automobile today.

My 68 Road Runner (383, auto, 3.23, 3700 pounds), when my mom drove it,
got 24 mpg highway and 18 mpg around town. My 72 Charger ( 400-2bbl,
auto, 3.23, 4100 pounds) got 22 highway and 17 around town after I
tuned it to 1968 specifications. And I managed to squeeze 41 mpg out of
a slant six in a 2400 pound 1964 Valiant. All had carburetors, not fuel
injection.

Imagine what a decent fuel injection cold have done . . . .

As the EPA is allowed to gain power, realiability, economy and
performance will suffer. I never figured out how a car getting 10 mpg
and 10% less emissions ( that's a ten percent reduction of the
remaining emissions after the advent of the PCV valve) was better than
a car getting 25 mpg. Btw, Chrysler, Ford, and GM engineers couldn't
figure it out either back in 72.

The EPA ignored inquiries about it.

Yep, update the slant six, get rid of all the environmental crap that
reduces economy and performance and put it in a solid, sturdy car. Hey
.. . . that sounds like my old Valiant.

Recently there was a discussion about vehicle safewty and the mini-van,
SUV factor was ignored. A larger vehicle is, simply put, a larger
hammer in an accident. I wonder if my opponents to s tronger car for
jhighway accidents drive minnis or SUVs . . .

Hmmm, must be Quebecois gendarmes . . . .<VBG>

How about reducing prices period, instead of rebates? How about getting
the monetary systems of the major world countries back on a precious
metal supported system?

Naw . .I never drove a car to the ground: a slant six with over 350
thou on it, a 5.2 ( 318 in a D-150 with now over 400 thou onit ( eldest
son drives it now), a 382 with over 200 thou on it, another slant six
with 280 thou on it . . . .

Agreed, and the big truck is rediculous ( sorry, guys, but it's true)
and nearly as big as some medium duty trucks but without the payload
capacity ( 2 1/2 to 5 tons).

Budd

 

Oh. and the European countries are immune to this, LOL!

 

Tell the truth, Roy, you've become a slave to a cushy lifestyle.

Me, I never had one, so the Medicare I'm on now is as good as it gets.

Ya want me to try a cut? BTDT, friend.

And lived quite well, just didn't have a new car, boat, house, huge
college funds for my kids, vacations in the Bahamas, scraped up every
penny for every bill of rediculous proportions caused by the overpaid
union employees, but I'm still making it. The kids were always well
dressed, we always had a roof over our heads, the food on the table was
alwatys wholesome, if not fancy and we slept without worring about
someone wanting to steal what we have.

And we were happy to be alive.

Ask yourself what you could really do without, if you had to.

Budd

 

I got a better idea, Tom, figure up how many people are in this group
and divide all your profits, including your own wages, among us all. I
mean, I'm unable to work and don't you want to support those that
cannot work?

That is what you want every business to do isn't it? That means you
should do it too.

At it's best, it's called "socialism" at it's worst, it's called
"communism", Tom.

Budd

 

Gee, why didn't you say that sooner? You want socialsm / communism in
America now . . .

Budd

 

Go to your bookshelf and open up any book. Is it written from top to
bottom or bottom to top?

Now take down another book - same thing?

Take down a few more - My God, are they ALL like that?

 

Because he suffers from the "I-wanna-be-the-moderator" Syndrome. Sure,
Usenet rules suggest bottom posting, but then those rules have never
been brought up to modern Internet standards. Way back when, bottom
posting was fine because modem speeds limiting the size of threads . .
it took much longer to post a huge reply, so you kept things brief.

Now, with cable DSL, for example, top posting makes sense so you get to
the reply much faster.

Of course, the other Usenet rules rarely gets used, the one about
trimming posts as topics evolve.

Budd

 

Sure ya can. Like I said Budd. How about you and a pay cut??

Sure am.

I can, everybody can, by adjusting their life style. I certainly will when I
retire. What amazes me is that is usually sombody wanting to tear down
sombody else to make a point. So to follow, how about a pay cut Budd ,your
pretty free with tossing my pay caheck around how about you. Doesn't sound
to damn good does it?

When was the last time you heard of a railroad strike?? Looks like the
railroads and their union's AGREED on contracts. Hmmm....

They demand decent wages, paid medical to include family, worker safty, a 40
hour work week, paid holidays, paid vacations. Just a few of the things that
you probably have enjoyed and have not had to do a damn thing to get. Do you
really believe that these benifits we just handed out by the corperation's.
Get a clue will ya!

Not to say that there are not a few unions that have screwed their members.
But most do a decent job representing their membership.

So where is the problem Budd? Is it really the unions or is it with the
owners seeking to maximize their profit?

CSX, BN are subsidized??


Care to name a passenger rairoad that is not subsidized? Hauling people is
not profitable. That is why every frieght railroad stopped doing it.

Really, then the taxpayer is screwing a bunch of people. The folks at Amtrak
have not had a raise in over 7 years. But I bet you have had a few cola's in
you check though

Your income is paid by who??

Roy