American vs German Quality

What is wrong with you?

I didn't accuse you of lying. I simply asked you for some verifiable
source of information. Instead of supplying one or saying you couldn't,
you behaved rudely. Gee, that's a recipe for trust.

I don't know what your problem is. I hope you figure out why you're
such an angry man and deal with it.

Cheers,

 

I dislike your attitude. Since the feeling is apparently mutual, I suggest
you quit reading my posts, since they seem to bother you so.

 

The application of attitude has been rather once sided here. You might
want to go back and read things again. I don't know what I've done to
offend you, but your behaviour has been really out of line.

Cheers,

 

My firsthand experience is that all Chrysler 318 engines last over
200,000 miles and 50% last over 400,000 miles. Does that mean a fleet
should have the same experience?

The point is that Modulars, particularly early ones, needed some pretty
major component replacements a lot more often than fleet builders were
used to seeing.

 

Cool. Now we're getting somewhere. Do you have any pointers on sources
of information that would fill in some of the blanks here? By "early"
do you mean 1996/1997/1998/2004?

Cheers,

 

CV? Chrysler Vehicle?? Something else???

Matt

 

Not completely. Assembly quality has an effect on reliability as well.
It is still not possible to engineer a design such that it is
completely idiot-proof with respect to assembly.

Matt

 

That's Daniel all right, all Fords suck but his 1992 Dodge Omni is the best
damn car ever built..... strange
Bob

 

Considering that I am replying from rad...and what does that have to
do with my cogent observation? I have been hearing the same juvenile
bs since I was a pup.

Harry K

 

Ford Crown Victoria.

 

I've never owned an Omni, and that's a model that was discontinued in
1990.

Thanks for playing.

DS

 

I'd say go look at the TSBs as Daniel suggested. I haven't talked to a
fleet guy about it since before 2000 so I have no current point of
contact, nor have I really followed the development closely. I DO know
that my employer's 1998 fleet van with a 5.4 drives and responds
COMPLETELY differently than 2003 and 2005 rentals I've had with the
newer 5.4 engine- how much is due to engine management and how much due
to hardware improvements I do not know. I've also picked up and thumbed
through a book on building high-performance (ie full race) Ford Modulars
in the bookstore one day, and it had a whole litany of things in its
"spotters guide" about which year blocks make good starting points and
which should be avoided. Basically, it pretty much ignores all the iron
blocks and focuses on the aluminum blocks from the Mk VIII, Navigator,
and Cobra. The iron block is the one that Dan and I are both talking
about, and the one that has really corny features like setting bearing
cap alignment by jackscrews rather than machined mating surfaces
(ditched by Ford in its own hi-po applications). To be honest, I only
picked it up out of sheer surprise that ANYONE has had success building
full-race Ford Modulars.

And if you want a one-sentence blanket assesment of the Modular compared
to the Mopar Hemi and the GM Gen-III, try this:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0403phr_hemi/

Most of the article is a detailed assessment of the Hemi using the LS-6
as a benchmark, but concludes that the LS-6 is "streets ahead" of the
Ford Modular, and the Hemi is ahead of the LS-6.

 

Ask me, go ahead, ask me! My reply will be "so what and who really cares about
that?"

 

Hmmmmmmmmm, I thought Ford Crown Victoria was WPC!

 

Good article...It sounds like they did their homework on the new "hemi."

As far as the Ford 4.6/5.4, while it may not be a good engine to hop up for
street rods, it must be reasonably reliable in fairly hard use, or they
wouldn't continue to be used by most police departments and taxi companies
in the U.S.

 

Your assumption is faulty. You're forgetting that there is no alternative
to the CV for a large RWD sedan in the North American market. When the
Caprice went out of production after '96, an industry sprang up based on
nothing but refurbishing police Caprices for further service -- several
such companies did very well, as many departments found the CV's
durability, handling and/or defogger performance unacceptable.

The cops in much of Southeastern Ontario, which is a large market, have
been steadily changing over from CVs to Chevrolet Impalas. The cab
companies don't buy many CVs any more; they're buying mostly Impalas
(though Hyundai Sonatas, of all things, are making inroads). Every time
you ask, you get more-or-less the same answer: "Sure, the CV as a whole
can last a lot of KMs, but only with a lot of parts replacements; the
engines don't last."

 

I think the ONLY reason its popular with police and taxi companies is
because it comes in the Crown Vic, not because its particularly rugged
itself. Front-drive cars fall apart in police service, and after the
Diplomat went away in 89 and the Caprice in the late 90s, the only
remaining rear-drive car suitible for police work was the Crown Vic.

 

Given that front drive cars would work fine as cop cars, and front drive
minivans would work better than Crown Vics as taxis, there is obviously a
pro-rear-drive bias among many fleet operators. The fact remains, though,
that the 4.6's must not be that terrible, or said fleet operators would
"bite the bullet" and start using one of the many front-drive cars and vans
that would serve their purposes. If southeastern Ontario dumps salt on
roads at anywhere near the rate of nearby places in the U.S., there will be
a limited time during which they can use the Caprices which have now been
out of production for eight years or so. Maybe they could transplant Chevy
or Mopar engines into the Fords if they are that big on rear drive, and if
the Ford 4.6's are that bad.

 

Oops, looks like you're having comprehension troubles. Did you not know
that the Impala is a FWD vehicle? Were you maybe thinking of the old
RWD Impala discontinued two decades ago? Here, have another go:

The cops in much of Southeastern Ontario, which is a large market, have
been steadily changing over from CVs to Chevrolet Impalas. The cab
companies don't buy many CVs any more; they're buying mostly Impalas
(though Hyundai Sonatas, of all things, are making inroads). Every time
you ask, you get more-or-less the same answer: "Sure, the CV as a whole
can last a lot of KMs, but only with a lot of parts replacements; the
engines don't last."

 

If the Ford 4.6/5.4 is so bad and "doesn't last," why don't the Consumer
Reports surveys show it. If you check the '96 to '03 "engine" listings for
the Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, Town Car, Mustang, F150, Navigator, and
Expedition which use these engines and compare the results with the
Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, Sierra, and Yukon which use the Chevy V8's,
guess what? The Ford engines are more reliable. The Buick Regal, LeSabre
and Park Avenue which have used the 3800 V6 engine over the entire '96-'03
model years of the latest CR report had worse results for '96 to '98 than
either the Ford or GM V8's. Maybe police departments are buying Impalas
with 3800's rather than CV's not because the CV's blow engines, but because
the front drive Impalas use less gas and go better in the snow. Just a
thought.