Aircraft Oils for Automotive Break-in & Motorcycles

Partly because it is an "ashless dispursent" oil, and partly because

Thank you, .

Will an air-cooled motorcycle engine be best lubricated with aircraft
engine oil, rather than automotive oil? I am thinking that AD (ashless
dispersant) will help prevent cylinder deposits and help keep the engine
passageways cleaner because a lot of motorcycles don't have an oil filter.
Also, motorcycle engines run hotter than car engines, more like aircraft
engines. I know the motorcycle manufacturers always used auto engine oil,
but maybe that's wrong.

What kind of automotive oil is good for break-in? Don't they all have
antifriction additives which will inhibit breakdown? Wouldn't an S
(straight mineral oil) aircraft oil work for break-in, after which a
standard automotive oil could be used? The car factory must use a special
break in oil that is not available to the general public?? So, after a
ring job, it might be hard to find a suitable automotive break-in oil,
making an straight mineral oil more suitable?

 

I remember years ago (I'm thinking maybe the 60's thru 80's) Castrol's
big selling point was that it was especially engineered for the higher
temperatures of air-cooled engines - I don't recall exactly how their
slogan was worded. But it was one of the reasons I gave it a try in my
early driving/DIY years - yes, I fell for a marketing slogan. Hey - if
it's good for hot-runing air-cooled engines, how much better for a
cooler-running water-cooled engine!! 8^)

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Use a 4 stroke motorcycle oil - and nothing else. These oils are
formulated to work properly with wet disk clutches, to work in the
transmission without fouling syncros, as well as handling the high
temps and speeds of a MC engine. JASO MA rating is specified for bike
engines.

Castrol ACT evo 4T is one brand.Silcolene, Maxum, Motul,and Repsol are
specialty manufacturers for bikes.NOCO Premium4 is also JASO
rated.Penzoil makes one too, but I'm not a Penzoil fan.Kendall is
another manufacturer of QUALITY motorcycle oils. Spectro SX4 too.

Don't use automotive or aircraft oil - PLEASE!!!!

 

Years ago I had an acquaintance that tried experimenting with different
oils in his air cooled bike. Fortunately for him, the day his engine seized
he wasn't going very fast.

Ted

 

I use Mobil 1 4 cycle Motorcycle oil in my Honda cycle. It is what I
recommend although any name brand 4 cycle motorcycle oil will get the job
done.

Richard.

 

Why? MCN (Motorcycle Consumer News) has done two very extensive tests
on a variety of motorcycle and automotive (not aircraft though as I
recall) oils and found no major differences. It has been a while since
their last test, but my recollection was that they didn't see any reason
not to use automotive oils in a motorcycle and save a fair bit of bucks.
As most of us know, the synthetics outperformed the dino oils, but the
difference between so-called motorcycle oils and regular car oils wasn't
enough to hang your hat on.

My only concern is running a synthetic in a wet clutch motorcycle. I've
heard of a number of foks that have done so successfully, but my
experience with my Kawasaki Voyager XII wasn't completely successful.
It didn't make my clutch slip once fully engaged, but it did cause the
clutch to shudder during engagement. I switched back to dino oil and
the shudder largely disappeared, but never went completely away.


Matt

 

Which is why I sai not to use automotive oil. It does not have the
required characteristics for a wet clutch to function properly. You
MIGHT get lucky, but at the price of motorcycles and parts today,
using the right oil is downright cheap insurance.

Have you tried real motorcycle oil since the clutch started
chattering??

 

Matt; it's not that Synthethic oil is a problem, it's that one should use
motorcycle oil, be it conventional or Synthetic. The wet clutch situation is
the factor suggesting the use of motorcycle oil.

Richard.

 

Yes, I agree that using the right oil is a good idea, however, I'm not
convinced that only oils that say motorcycle on the bottle are "right."
If there are two "right" oils available and one costs $6/quart and the
other $2/quart, I'd much rather use the latter and I think that is the
case with motorcycle oils vs. "car" oils.

I think the issue with my clutch was dino vs. synthetic, not motorcycle
vs. car.

Yes, I ran GENUINE Kawasaki four-cycle 15W50 oil for the last two years
that I owned the bike and nothing changed. So, either the clutch
shudder was totally coincidental with the switch to synthetic and would
have occurred no matter what oil I used, or it did some "permanent"
damage to the clutch disks. I really don't know the answer and sold the
bike last year so I will never know. The shudder wasn't really all that
bad and probably nobody other than me would even notice. The person I
sold the bike too couldn't detect it, but then he'd never ridden the
bike previously to have a point for comparison.

Matt

 

I've seen no data to support this. The extensive MCN tests simply
didn't show any significant difference in the additive packages between
auto and motorcycle oils. What makes you think that there is a
difference? Do you have tests or data?


Matt

 

Matt; recent changes in "energy saving" automobile oils have increased
certain friction properties that, I am told, make them less suitable for
usse in a cycle with a wet clutch situation. Many dirt racers I know get
along on the "cheap" stuff just fine. I have not done any test myself. I
have a business related to energy saving fluid film bearings, and this is
what the tech guys also tell me, but again, none of them race dirt bikes.
Several do have street bikes and they all recommended Mobil 1 4 stroke
motorcycle oil to me, so that is what I use.

Richard.

 

You'll never convince Matt. Save your breath.

 

Yes, if all you have is breath, like you, then that is not very
convincing. I'm always convinced by data, however. Anecdotes don't do
much for me.

Matt

 

Matt, I don't have access to data. But positions published by oil venders
based on their "data" is not anecdotal.

But let me suggest, without any data to back it up, that your acceptable
experience with non-motorcycle oil could be because clutch technology has
been modified to deal with common usage of the "wrong" oil. Still, Mobil and
others do report that the most recent mandated upgrade to car and truck oil
standards have rendered such oils even less suitable to a wet clutch
situation. Perhaps cheap, non-branded oils that don't meet these new specs
would be the way to go for someone that doesn't want to pay for motorcycle
oil. If you see any tests on this let us know.

Richard.

 

I agree, if such positions have been published. I've yet to find
anything published by an oil manufacturer. I'd love to see any such
reports.

Where has this been reported? I've looked, but haven't found anything
as yet.

The only real tests I've seen are the ones commissioned by MCN as I
mentioned earlier. I'd have to dig through my back issues to be 100%
certain, but my recollection was that they basically said that spending
the high premium to buy oil with "motorcycle" on the label was basically
throwing away money ... and they had lots of data to support that position.


Matt

 

You want info from the oil companies?
Look at what is available from the Oronite Division of Chevron (oil
additives (supplied to refineries) at:
http://www.chevron.com/products/oronite/products/lubricating_oil_additives/four_stroke.asp
Particularly pay attention to the info about OLOA 9364 J Series

Want some good tech information from Maxima oil? Go to:
http://www.floridatrailriders.org/articles/techinf3.htm for a good
dissertation by Danny Massie, as well as some information from
Proffessor Gary Bailey. Real world testing, and a technical
explanation from one of the MAJOR bike oil suppliers.

Also at:
http://www.maximausa.com/technical/lubenews/winterspring2001.pdf.

Then make up your mind

 

This is a sales pitch, there is no data here.

This one is better, but comparing one sample of one oil to one sample of
another oil would make a statistician roll on the floor in laughter.
That is so far from a real experiment that it isn't even comical. Also,
comparing gear oils to engine oils is also laughable. I don't know what
the gearbox in a two-stroke motorcycle calls for these days, but it may
well specify gear oil in which case using engine oil wouldn't be a good
idea.

The key issue is what was the gearbox designed for? Gear oil isn't
automatically better than engine oil and that isn't automatically better
than ATF. Many automatic transmissions last a very long time running a
very thin oil (ATF), whereas many manual gearboxes, such as my Chevy
truck, use a high-end gear oil (Syntorq). Heavier isn't necessarily
better, it depends on what the designers designed for.

Again, no data, just a sales pitch from a company selling motorcycle
oil. I wonder what their vested interest might be? Could it be,
selling oil that says it is for motorcycles vs. much less expensive auto
oil? Nah, that couldn't be possible...

I pretty much have based on the only relatively unbiased and data based
report that I have seen, which is the MCN report. However, as I said,
if I see more or better data, I reserve the right to change my mind!

Matt

 

The big issue is the CLUTCH - and for that, ATF would likely be best.
#75 gear oil is roughly the same thickness as #30 engine oil. In a 4
stroke bike with integrated trans and whet clutch, neither is an
option.

 

Just got back from a visit from my brother-in-law who races two honda dirt
bikes. He has been using conventional 10W-30 motor oil, but the stuff is not
the new energy saving quality rating stuff, but the older J rated stuff.
This is perhaps why he has experienced no clutch issues.

Richard.