a604 Limp, Rebuilt, Sensors replaced, solenoid replaced still Limps!

The NEW selonoid packs do NOT come with a sound suppressor, they
redesigned them so that wasn't needed.

I already gave you a link here:

http://www.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com/94tcpics/project.html

which had a nice picture of a freshly rebuilt trans with a selonoid pack on
it - did you see any sound suppressor? Did you even bother looking and
reading through the God-damned site?

And, if you had paid the $510 you would have got genuine Mopar
sensors in there, and if it kept having problems then Dodge would be
eating the cost of further replacements.

Why do you say that? The trans goes into limp mode because the
computer tells it to - and every time the computer puts it into limp mode
it sets a code.

You have them fix it and take the car away and bring it back a day
later claiming it went into limp mode - well they can scan it and see
what the problem is.

Richard, your transmission was NOT fine. A good solid transmission
won't shred itself going into limp mode on the freeway - I've had it happen
to me before and the trans didn't lose 2nd gear, so have a lot of people.
You already said you had a wrecking yard trans in that vehicle. It
was very likely near the end of it's lifespan.

IF IT GOES INTO LIMP MODE THE TCM WILL HAVE STORED
CODES, PERIOD!!!!!

 

NO IT WAS NOT ABLE TO READ IT!!!

Here is what it dumped.

THAT IS BECAUSE THE ADVANCE AUTO SCANNER WAS NOT
READING TRANS CODES

Richard, I ALREADY TOLD YOU that there are TWO separate connectors in
your vehicle for a scanner to plug into. One is connected to the CCD bus
that
the TCM is connected to. The other is connected to the engine computer.
The
Advance Auto scanner was connected to the engine computer not to the CCD
bus so it cannot pull codes from the TCM.

I already told you that the only scanner that will pull trans codes is
something like
the OTC Monitor 4000 that was listed in my pictorial that you obviously
didn't
read, or a dealership scanner. The OTC does it because that scanner can
plug
into BOTH scan ports if the correct cable is used.

And I already told you that you will not find these scanners behind the
counter
of an auto parts store.

Any wrecking yard that has one of these can provide one. Go visit a
u-pull-it
yard.

No, not if the problem is the sensors.

Ted

 

Where is this connector at? Since the car does have an ODB-II
connector I thought it would be the point to get into the CCD bus?

 

Actually I did read through your site and it was quite a good outline.

The Solenoid pack on the car now is MUCH louder.

We'll see its going to DC shop today. I will be out of town this week
so hoepfully they can get to it(they dont think so).

 

The following is from an Amazon listing.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002JMDX6/102-5604235-0952104?v=glance&n=228013
Equus OBD II Code Reader, around $100

The 3100 Code Reader is designed to work on all OBD II compliant
vehicles. (NOTE: The 3100 OBD Code Reader is NOT compatible with
vehicles using the CAN protocol. Go to
http://iequus.com/assets/code_readers/CAN_vehicles.htm to view the list
of vehicles not compatible with the 3100). Most 1996 and newer vehicles
(cars and light trucks) sold in the U.S. are OBD II compliant. Some
1994 and 1995 vehicles are OBD II compliant.

To find out if a 1994 or 1995 vehicle is OBD II compliant, check the
following:

1. The Vehicle Emissions Control Information (VECI) Label. This label
is located under the hood or by the radiator of most vehicles. If the
vehicle is OBD II compliant, the label will state OBD II Certified.

2. Government Regulations require that all OBD II compliant vehicles
must have a common sixteen-pin Data Link Connector (DLC). NOTE: Some
1994 and 1995 vehicles have 16-pin connectors but are not OBD II
compliant, only the ones where the Vehicle Emissions Control Label
states that, they are OBD II Certified.

Tester provides information of:
1) Monitor Status / I/M Readiness.
2) MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) status.
3) Current Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs). 4) Alerts of any Pending
Codes. Manual provides Manufacturer Specific (P1) emissions code
definitions for GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, and Toyota. Auto-Monitoring
function periodically retrieves the latest code and I/M readiness
status from a vehicles computer. Includes 6-foot Data Link Connector
(DLC) cable and a detailed instruction manual in English, French and
Spanish with in-depth information on OBD II systems and codes. For more
information, additional codes and vehicle compatibility, please visit
codereader.com.

Just checking in with my potshot for the day. You're pretty sure that
your vehicle is OBD II compliant then? And you should be able to read
the scans of the TCM?

My vague memory is that pre-1996, don't know if this was cast in stone,
required a very special harness to read the codes from the
TCM/Transmission Control Module [tranny computer] according to a
TSB/Technical Service(s) Bulletin from Chrysler that I read. Or maybe
misread. I'm not a mechanic and have not read codes other than simple
engine codes. I don't know if third-party people made codereaders that
bypassed this cable jiggernaut. I also vaguely recall that the harness
was $5000. That seemed a bit steep so it must have been a very
complicated cable. Am I kind of on the money here or completely out of
my whatever? Any Chrysler tech care to correct any mistakes? Glenn?

 

The 95 stratus has an ODB II connector however I have been told that
it uses ODB I communication over this connection. Ted has told me that
there is another connection somewhere hoever I have yet to find it.

Regardless I dropped it off at a 5 star DC shop today. If they cant
figure out wth is going on with it then I will probably unload the car
somehow. It will be an expensive lesson for me in what NOT to buy.

 

I feel your pain, brother, on today, Memorial Day. But let us not grow
bitter and remember our comrades who have fallen before the Chrysler
Corporation with integrity, truthfulness, and vehicles that would not
cooperate.

Your comment reminded me of the last Chrysler vehicle I purchased. One
day it just would not start. No matter what I did, that Plymouth would
not start up. So I took it to a good local shop. A nice independent.
That car sat there for one solid year and no one could get it to start!

What happened in the end? The shop got sold to a chain and for all I
know my beloved Plymouth is buried in the great beyond, gathering dust
on its metal panels.

My current Plymouth I did not purchase. It was given to me by someone
who could not ethically sell such a problematic vehicle to another
person. So now I am developing intimate relationships with all kinds of
people trying to solve its problems. And there is always a problem.

I'll leave you with one thought. Maybe I should not but what the heck.
Some of my later Chrysler products were like beautiful women who have
"problems." I just could never afford a beauty who came without
problems.

 

Amen! I wish I had my 1969 Chrysler 300 with 84K miles on its back. I
bought it when I was 21 years old and working at a self service auto
dismantler in California. I paid $293 for it. IT had been sitting for
nearly a decade as its owner was too old to drive it. I took it,
babied it, and put Holle 4bbl Pro-Jection on it. It set me back many
hours of work routing return fuel lines and wiring. Not to mention the
100amp alternator to handle the injection, the MSD 6AL ignition system
and the 600 Watt Kenwood stero system.

Oh it was a thing of beauty though, to pull along side of a punk kid
in a new convertible Mustang at a light, blaring his stereo and
hearing mine he would want to race off to show his woman that his car
was better than mine even though my stereo was louder. Woe is him when
I would burry it and walk away... Many a Mustan and Camaro's ego fell
to my 300. But perhaps the biggest trimumph was the fact that with an
open loop after market fuel injection system I could get 20MPG on the
freeway... Ahh those were the good ol days.....

 

On my 1999 Plymouth Grand Voyager, the OBD-II (ALDL) data port is the
only one used for engine, transmission & ABS communication. But you DO
need a scanner capable of reading Manufacturer ENHANCED codes. A generic
code reader won't do this for you. I just went out and read the codes on
mine to make sure it works like I'm telling you, and it does. I'm using
an OTC Monitor Elite, with a OTC System Smart Insert 25 pin Chryslers
Motors 2.0 chip, a Deuce '01 cartridge, and the standard OBD-II cable. I
would recommended a similar setup to anyone who's a serious
Do-it-yourselfer. I have about $350 invested in it from Ebay. If you
only need OBD-I capability, you can purchase a used OTC Monitor 4000E or
(or equivalent), with cartridge on Ebay for under $100. The Chrysler
A-604 Transmission and Chassis (CCD) Adapter needed to pull A-604 tranny
codes is also available on Ebay. I paid about $35 for mine.

 

Ok here is todays update.

DC 5 star dealer said that they pulled the codes and the only codes
were for the TPS. They replaced the TPS. They also said that the
computer needed a flash update and did that. Total cost $470 approx.

They performed the repairs, took the car for a drive and it went into
limp, NO CODES REPORTED.

So they say the problem must be that the tranny shop botched the
rebuild. They want $3300+ to replace the tranny. Keep in mind the car
cost $3800....

I called the tranny shop and they stood behind their rebuild. The told
me that Myself or A Dodges technician can come down and watch them
pull and disassemble the tranny to make sure that nothing is wrong.


WTF? Any bright ideas? I am currently on hold with DC 5 Star waiting
to tell them this.

 

A dim bulb went off deep inside me. I had one bright idea which was
flashing the trans computer which the dealer did. I assume there is ATF
+3 in the beast?

You know this sounds like the problem when a fuse keeps blowing because
of a surge that is not dangerous and could be disregarded. The
situation sounds quite bad with you caught in the middle. Can someone
disconnect the line or the whatever that put the transmission into limp
mode? If it's a spurious warning, what danger can result? And would the
danger be worse than what it is now, which is a vehicle that is quickly
becoming useless to you.

About the dealer, can they test the TPS which they took out? This is
the Throttle Position Sensor? It has to be testable. If it's okay, then
what accepts the TPS signals is not okay. If it's not malfunctioning,
they could put back the old one and refund your money. It's a wild shot
there. And do they have some kind of super Chrysler engineer expert on
call that you can discuss this with? If I recall, the vehicle was in
limp mode before. The Factory Shop Manual and/or the tranny Superbook
might have how to test the TPS in regards to the tranny.

I also do not understand the $3300 to replace the tranny since the last
time I asked Chrysler, the cost was for me, $1800 for a remanufactured
one. They want $1500 labor to put in a transmission? I don't think they
want to really help you out. Maybe you need to swallow your pride and
whine and plead and scream like a very frustrated customer. Make up a
sign. The Chrysler Dealer Ripped Me Off and picket and picket. Okay,
that's a little extreme, but jumping up and down might work. When
various dealers ripped me off, slinking off embarrassed and defeated
did not do anything except get me out of there for the next victim.

They must have spare computers and harnesses they could use to check
out yours. Either your tranny is giving spurious signals which cannot
be detected or your computers are not reading the signals properly or
the cable has a crimp in it.

Fortunately I know so little that I cannot keep quite quiet

If the shop screwed up, then what did the shop screw up? Put it in
writing or fix the beast. This is like the old hardware software
run-around in computers. Not my problem, it's the hardware. No, that's
not my problem, it's a software bug. Whatever it is, you are not
getting any specific information.

Make sure the next mechanic who works on your car has gray hair and is
going to retire in a few years. This is not a problem for anyone less
than 55 years of age. You need a very experienced and thoughtful MASTER
mechanic.

 

It should be ATF +3 but hopefully the dealer and the trans shop work
that out tomorrow.

If the solenoid or speed sensors dropped off line it should gen a code
I'd think.

I could ask them about testing the TPS but since both computers
supposedly were fussing about it I would bet its bad. I never found my
analog VOM to test it before I took it in. According to the ATSG
manual for this trans the TPS failing can not put it into limp but who
knows who is right at this point.

Dont ask me on the pricing the previous DC dealer before the tran
shop told me 2800, 2200 for the trans and the rest labor.

I called their parts dept last week to price the harness and they
didnt have one in stock. I dont know about the computer but you would
think they should want to try it.

I asked the DC dealer this. Their answer was "I dont know what they
might of made a mistake on but thats what our trans tech thinks it is"
I said well can you put that in writing for me? So I can contest the
rebuild with the other shop. Their answer was "since we havent opened
the trans and our tech isnt really willing to (their tech doesnt want
to open the trans and doesnt want to rebuild it because he doesnt know
what the trans shop may have done to it) we cant put that in writing"

Thats part of the problem I think,. some of the ones you describe are
set in their ways. I wish to go I could find one mechanic with the
scruples to want to troubleshoot the problem till its 100% fixed. To
have the balls to say I tried this and it didnt fix it so I'm not
charging you because it was my lack of knowledge that meant I had to
try to fix it willy nilly. Such a creature doesnt seem to exist near
me.

 

This would make 600 for labor? 2800 - 2200 = 600.

But the other dealer now wants 1500 for labor or 2.5 x 600?
Two and half times what the previous quote was?
That strikes me as slightly curious, yes?

What is a trans tech? Is he certified by DaimlerChrysler? I have not
heard of that but I do not know. Is he Gold Certified Chrysler trained?
On what basis other than the ubiquitous of Cover Your Ass by blaming
the other guy?

Let me suggest what I have done in dilemmas like this:

1. Allpar.com is a good place to ask. Rather tech type people are
there. Their answers are sometimes quite detailed. Sometimes wrong. But
that is where I learned about flashing the TCM and my 37 mph
self-destruct shudder. Or so I think. Damn, I'll have to look in my
notes. That's a qualified probability

2. To find a master mechanic with white hair who is not set in his ways
and researches, you might want to do what I did:

a. Although universally reviled in this newsgroup, the Click and Clack
Tappet Brothers at www.cartalk.com have a mechanics locator with
reviews on their web site. I called up about six shops that were
listed. I went to two shops and they were very pleasant and very open.
One was a master mechanic. I went to see him. Very professional. Used a
dental mirror to look inside things. He seemed like a master mechanic.
And I have never seen so many diplomas on a wall. This gent had over 20
auotmobile certifications and I kid you not. And he was very kind and
gentlemanly, quite unlike most monosyllabic mechanics who just don't
like to chit and chat.

b. Float an email to the Tappet brothers. Shhhh, don't tell anyone I
told you this.

 

I'm a member of Allpar...

You can smell the difference between ATF+3 and Dexron/Mercon.

As for the harness.. I dont think it is just something that can
replaced on a whim.. It is integrated into the rest of the harness in
the van.

If you can get your hands on a wiring diagram or a pinout of the
tranny harnesses, you could test the harness to see if there is any
problems.... I have the 1994 FSM for my Caravan. If need be, I can
scan the pinouts of the tranny controller harness and solenoid pack
harness so you can try to check some of the wiring.....

I could prolly do a complete copy of the wiring diagrams, but it would
take some time... (about 120 pagess)

 

For $25 he could get an on-line alldata subscription and have access to
all schematics for the one vehilce. To me, for the time involved, I'd
rather pay his $25 than manually scan 120 pages.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Me too but thats what they said. Dunno why the difference and dont
much care at this point as I'm not getting the trans replaced.

His in shop transmission technician, or trans tech as the dealer
service manager likes to refer to him as. He is supposed to be a
certirfied master technician...

There is nearly a complete echo of my conversation here up there. No
answers forthcoming there either.

Ok I may do this...

 

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 07:05:31 -0400, Richard Ahlquist

Latest update.

Dodge never had their tech call the trans shop, didnt figure they
would. The DC service manager did call the trans shop and tried to get
the trans shop to pay DC to put in a new factory rebuilt transmission.
Since the trans shop stands behind their product they refused the
rediculous price.

The trans shop called me and told me what they want to do.

They are purchasing another transmission, rebuilding it and when its
ready they will call me and do a one day swap on it. After that if it
goes into limp then I get to take it back to DC and they will start
charging me $85/hour to diagnose the problem again..


WHAT THE #@$@#.

So today I go pay $502 to pick up the damn car with its new TPS and
flash upgrade.

So this will be the trans shops 3rd rebuild. I have to say they are
sersiously standing by their warranty on this even to the point of
justt rying to prove to DC that there is nothing wrong with their
rebuild.

So we are back to the point of if I get it back and it limps again
what would any of yall do if it were your car? Would you take it back
to DC who has proven they cant troublshoot the damn issue? I mean hell
their philosophy seems to be if tis broke and the computer doesnt
throw a code to tell them why, then replace the whole trans, remind me
not to go there with a spark plug misfiring.

 

Sorry I did not read your hole story but I had the same problem with my
Dodge Stratus (in Holland Chrysler Stratus) It goes in Limp in mode when it
was very warm outside. I did not get any faultcodes. At last I bought a
secondhand TCM at the junkyard for 50 Euro's and the problem was gone!

Succes Hennie.

 

But a really competant trans shop should be able to trouble shoot ALL
problems related to the tranmission! Why the hell can't the trans shop
look at the cable harnesses?

And yeah, at this point I would try to get a TCM from a junk yard.
What have you got to lose?

 

It's too bad your not close to me here in FL. I have a spare TCM that
has the latest flash on it I would let you borrow to check and see if
that fixes the problem.

Is that pcsites address a valid address? If so, I am going to scan and
send you a copy of the TCM pinout and the tranny harness pinout. They
will be in Adobe PDF format.