A604-41TE Amsoil synthetic versus ATF+3 Mpoar 7176 ??

Hi Matt,

I respect your caution about upgrading to a full synthetic ATF. God
knows these trannys are very sensitive to fluid requirements, and
everyone who has ever put Dexron Mercon in by mistake, or believed some
idiot at a trans repair shop who said it was OK to put it in, "as long
as a friction modifier like Lube-guard is added", immediately had TC
shudder and slippage. Such would require an immediate full system
flush, a new MOPAR filter (not a close but no cigar knockoff), and a
complete refill with MOPAR ATF +3. All true.

I know how you feel. The data. The data. Think about this though. How
long were DCX's own TSB's on fluid (Trans OIL) for the A604 confusing
and open to interpretation? I think their data is too often just profit
driven bunkum.

All I can tell you is this. I have had great results with full
synthetic ATF in my A604. I knew right off I had done the right thing
because it performs far better.

It shifts way faster and firmer on WOT, like a properly installed shift
kit would afford, and it shifts down perfectly too. Yet when driving
"normal" with smooth light even acceleration, you can NOT feel it shift
at all. I mean way waaaaay smoother than it did even when brand new. If
the friction characteristics were not up to snuff, it wouldn't be able
to do that, and you know it.

It runs much cooler now too, both in stop and go traffic in hot
weather, and when taking a beating on the highway. If the friction
characteristics were off, it would heat up, even if I really was too
stupid to sense if was slipping, or the shift timing was off.

You know how these 4 speeds were designed to hang onto one gear while
grabbing another, so they would have that "grocery getter smoothness",
and how this means friction heat buildup. As you may know already. This
is why a good shift kit can extend the life of these babies, IF DONE
RIGHT. Yeah yeah yeah. I know. Most people can't install a shift kit
right. Or they chose the wrong one and just wind up creating problems.
But you know the idea behind getting one. Well now my A604 performs
just as I told you above.

I believe that this full synthetic enables the A604 to actually perform
as it was intended to by the designers. In other words. I think they
are a great design, and really the old ATF +3 was just not up to the
job. Not really. You had to baby them to get a decent life span out of
them, by avoiding WOT and driving conservatively.

But for far too many people, over many years, [there is plenty of data
on that!] driving conservatively and using only Mopar 7176 +3, Mopar
filters and following their fluid & filter change schedule, did not get
them the lifespan of the 3 speeds, and other car manufacturers
transmissions.

Thousands of complaints over the years by A604 owners has given it bad
reputation. But it wasn't the design. It was the ATF. The fact that DCX
is pushing their new semi synthetic +4, only proves they knew it too.
The A604/41Te4 design is a marvel! It was ahead of it's time, IF you
used Mopar 7176 +3, but not if you were using one of the full
synthetics.

Honestly Matt. Full synthetics like Redline C+ and Amsoil ATF have been
around a lot longer than Mopar +4. Those who for years have been using
these full synthetics in their's, with great results, have all along
been denounced as liars trying to peddle snake oil though. It is a
MYTH that only Mopar ATF should be used.

True, Mopar +4 is better than their old +3, but it is only a semi
synthetic. It is a far less robust than a 100% full synthetic. I use it
in my A604, for the same reasons that I use Mobil 1 in my engine.

I swear to you I don't sell the stuff Matt. In fact if I were you, I
would go with the Redline C+, because they have a better reputation,
and lots of race teams wont use anything else. I only have experience
with Amsoil ATF though, and I do know from experience that it is great
stuff. So personally I would buy Amsoil again.

I trust Valvoline pretty much. I mean they do have a reputation to
uphold, and there are liability issues, but they say they have a +4. I
don't know if it is just a copy of Mopar's semi synthetic +4 or not
though. I suggest you try one of the full synthetics.

Or you can believe the myths. Like if you disconnect the air box on a
Chrysler/MMC 3.0 and use a CAI instead, then your computer will burn
up! People believed that myth for years. But experience, seat of the
pants data not driven by profit, my own included, proves that to be
untrue. It's the same with this ATF issue Matt.



Steviepoo,

Some of us still call the 41Te4 (not "41Te" as you said by the way)
A604's out of habit, because we have been Chrysler owners a little
longer.

One more thing Stevie. You really can be a nasty bitchy little whiner.
So I don't know if you are really a *man* or not. Balls *or* no balls.

 

You still here? Slow day selling Scamsoil! And what temp does your tranny
run? at ambient temp of 100 degrees, around town?

 

Can anyone read this last post and tell me that could possibly be a girl
as claimed? No female expresses herself like this. Try reading the
post as a woman speaking to you - it's impossible - the voice keeps
switching to a man. The poster is a guy an "im-poster".

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

Thinking it is doesn't make it so.

It performs differently, but that may not be better.

That isn't consistent. The same clutches are shifting at low throttle
and WOT. If the fluid is slipperier allowing smoother (i.e., more
clutch slippage during shifting) shifts are low throttle, it will also
allow smoother shifts at WOT. Think about it...

How do you know? I haven't seen a production car with a transmission
temp gauge in eons.

A shift kit and a fluid change aren't comparable at all. A fluid change
won't give the benefits of a shift kit.

You believe a lot, but know very little. How do you know what the
designers intended? Do you know any of them?

Three speeds, yes, other car manufacturers modern four+ speeds, no.
Ford has had trouble with the Windstar, Honda with the Odyssey, even
Toyota vans have had an inordinate amount of trouble with their new
automatics early on. Most have been sorted out reasonably well by now,
but they are simply packing more stuff into a fixed space then with the
old three speeds and reliability has suffered, no argument there.
However, most of the newer trannies are doing rather well. My 1996
Grand Voyager just turned 167,000 miles and is on the original 3.3L
engine and four speed transmission.

Actually, it had some design/component materials problems that have
since largely been addressed.

True. Do you not think that Chrysler engineers weren't aware of the
available fluids when they designed the transmission? If they could
have accomplished their design goals using a full synthetic do you not
think they would have done so?

Not necessarily better, just appropriate for the transmission design in
use today. I use Mobil 1 also, but engines and transmissions are
totally different beasts. I can't think right off-hand of any part in
an engine that doesn't benefit from less friction (once break-in has
been accomplished). However, wet clutches are designed for a PARTICULAR
amount of friction. Either more or LESS is bad. This isn't the case in
an engine.

No, you think it is great stuff, you don't know that it is.

Why? I have 167,000 miles on +3 and my transmission still shifts just
tine. I'd be nuts to change.

Not even close to being the same. You just believe a different myth.


Matt

 

Get help.

It is obvious you need to find a good shrink
and sort your sexuality issues out.

Talk about insecurity. You take the cake. I
am sure this isn't the first time someone has
suggested this to you either.

 

Matt,

I guess I was pretty silly to think you actually
wanted to discus this.

Obviously I was wrong though.

Have a good life.

 

Oh no! I'm so mortally wounded. I don't think I can ever get over it.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

Besides, I'm not the one coming onto the internet as a cross-dresser.

(I know - don't feed the trolls!)

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

Somehow, I don't think you are gone!

 

Are you one of those idiots from the FWD MOPAR Yahoo
group started by Jeremy Leis? He is the asshole who
started that rumor about me.

Now tell me that somebone who makes such an assumption
about me, because I am tall for a woman, doesn't have
some serious sexual issues.

For the record ASSHOLE. I am not a man. I have never
had a dick. I am not a sex change, and I am certainly
not a "cross dresser". Which is a word I had to look
up in the dictionary. By the way. Now how come you
know that obscure reference? It sure seems to be
insider terminology from what I can gather.

Either you 'are' Jeremy Leis or you are one of his
immensely homophobic buddies. I think you are Jeremy
Leis, and here is the proof that you DO have some
serious sexual issues.


http://www.dekalbsheriff.com/sexoffenders.asp


Just scroll down the SEX OFFENDERS LIST until you
find the name Jeremy W. Leis. Hit on the link, and
you will his picture, along with his address. Oh,
by the way Leis. Your address had better be current
and correct. Or you have violated your PAROLE!

Intolerant homophobic gossips always have one thing
in common. They are OVER compensating, and they are
hiding something.

**** YOU. YOU CHILD MOLESTER!

 

What the hell is going on?

Right from the start I have been amazed at the
level of animosity expressed here, toward anyone
who points out, there are alternatives to Mopar
ATF.

I mean it is really over the top! I have been
accused of everything, from selling a particular
brand of full synthetic ATF, to being a cross
dresser!

What the hell is going on here? I just came here
to give the Mopar guys a heads up.

I kept expecting someone who isn't crazy, to
speak up and actually say something that made
some sort of sense, but no way. In fact it just
gets worse.

I just did a web search and looked around a bit.

I see someone even tried to start a Usenet group
about Amsoil. It has been completely silenced by
spam though. I also noticed that anyone who
speaks positively about non Mopar ATF, in other
forums, is treated the same damned way.

The very few posts which are not ludicrous rants,
filled with ridiculous personal invective, are
nothing more than doublespeak usually reserved
for political propaganda.

The tactics of propaganda remain consistent.
Anyone who says there are alternatives to Mopar
ATF, is smeared by any means necessary. I am
surprised I haven't been accused of being anti
American also.

The man who developed Amsoil, pioneered both the
development and production of, the very first
synthetic automotive lubricants. That was long
before Mobil 1, or any of the other synthetic
oils available today. I really can't imagine why
anyone would call snake oil. It doesn't make any
sense at all.

Consider this. The entire concept of synthetic
oil was denounced as snake oil, until BIG OIL
got on board with it. So is there a connection
between BIG OIL, and all the irrational hate
and misinformation involved in this war against
Amsoil? I don't know. It is enough to really
make me wonder though.

 

Yep! It is one big conspiracy. Big oil companies at the Chrysler newsgroup
trying to keep a lid on Scamsoil! You found us out.
P.S. didn't you say goodbye, like 10 times already?

 

If you don't think some big corps don't do whatever
it takes to stomp their competition, then you are
either very naive, or just plain stupid.

 

what did you think would happen if you came to a chrysler group bashing
thier favorite product?
go to *any*group and bash what they are there about and see what you get.
have you posted your.........whatever in the Ford or GM groups?

 

Well, wonder about the fact that you've been expressing yourself like a
dickhead........

 

FINALLY.. You said something I can agree with. Your are correct that
some corporations don't do whatever it takes to stomp their
competition.

BTW... While you are looking up words in the dictionary you might
want to check for Good Bye as you obviously have no clue what it
means.... You keep using it over and over yet you still seem to be
here.

Steve B.

 

Always willing to discuss facts, physics, etc. However, discussing your
feelings about oil isn't all that satisfying to me.

Only if you don't have data or facts.

I have, I am and I will!


Matt

 

Uh huh

If some do not, then some, perhaps most, certainly do.

Very good Steve.

 

That's nice. So what.

Yes - that's what they call one type of man who poses as a woman. So what.

OK - you did it.

That's right. We're all crazy as loons. We like it that way. We drove
all the normal people off. We've been waiting for you to join us.

Gee that's funny. The guy who used to be president of a certain
MOPAR-centric club uses Amsoil ATF in his Chrysler car. I won't tell
you which club it is because, even though several people there are
friendly to Amsoil and some use it - they wouldn't want to hear your
meaningless crap either. On the other hand, there's five fingers - err
- I mean - if you happen to figure it out, that's OK too, 'cause they
can block you there, so knock yourself out trying to figure it out - it
wouldn't be hard to do.

Let's see...invective, invective... oh, OK, here it is - "violent verbal
attack". Ummm - OK - I'll buy that. I would try to immitate some
political propaganda double-speak for you, but I'm too tired right now.
However, you can probably pick up some Howard Dean sound bytes on TV
tonight on CNN or Fox News.

Yes - we've all taken a pledge to do that whenever the opportunity
arises. At least we are consistent, eh? (I'm not from Canada - I just
like posting like that when I can.)

OK - you're anti-American. Happy now?

I have nothing against Amsoil. I use certain herbs that I know work,
and people call it snake oil. So what.

No surprise there. You will usually get a similar reaction if you post
that you are using Fram oil filters - that gets a little weird too
sometimes. I don't get freaked out about it though.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

Bill Putney,

Are you one of those idiots from the FWD MOPAR Yahoo
group started by Jeremy Leis? He is the asshole who
started that rumor about me.

Now tell me that somebone who makes such an assumption
about me, because I am tall for a woman, doesn't have
some serious sexual issues.


For the record ASSHOLE. I am not a man. I have never
had a dick. I am not a sex change, and I am certainly
not a "cross dresser". Which is a word I had to look
up in the dictionary. By the way. Now how come you
know that obscure reference? It sure seems to be
insider terminology from what I can gather.


Either you 'are' Jeremy Leis or you are one of his
immensely homophobic buddies. I think you are Jeremy
Leis, and here is the proof that you DO have some
serious sexual issues.


http://www.dekalbsheriff.com/s­exoffenders.asp


Just scroll down the SEX OFFENDERS LIST until you
find the name Jeremy W. Leis. Hit on the link, and
you see will his picture along with his address. Oh,
by the way Leis. Your address had better be current
and correct. Or you have violated your PAROLE.


Intolerant homophobic gossips always have one thing
in common. They are OVER compensating, and they are
hiding something.


**** YOU CHILD MOLESTER