A604-41TE Amsoil synthetic versus ATF+3 Mpoar 7176 ??

You said that once before...


Matt

 

I'm not stupid, I know what a 42LE is.

Austin Texas. 2 seasons: summer and hellfire. City driving weekdays,
plenty of roadtrips and long drives at high speeds too.

Kinda hard to rack up 220,000 miles and take the family on vacation
doing stuff like that...

Maybe you're just F.O.S.

 

Rather that engage in another round of reference-citation-tennis, let me
back up and just ask what your objective is here? If its NOT to sell
Scamsoil, then what? You can't really claim that you've used the fluid
long enough to establish long-term durability. You can't really
attribute any better performance to the fluid, maybe you just finally
got a transmission that wasn't a typical cruddy mass-production rebuild
hack job.

I'll freely acknowledge that the 41TE/42LE have a less-stellar
reputation for durability than an A-727 or A-904. It comes with the
front-drive, high-mpg, lightweight territory that they were designed in.
Honda isn't doing any better. Neither is Toyota, Nissan, GM, or Ford.
But its also been well-established that regular fluid changes with
fluids that are CERTIFIED to the ATF +3 and +4 specs DO give these
transmissions a better shot at long life.

So come on. What's your objective in posting? Saving a few bucks on
transmission fluid that you only have to change every 50k miles can't
SERIOUSLY be important to you. Its much more important to avoid a
$3000-plus rebuild than save $30 on fluid every 2 years.

C'mon, dude, what do you EXPECT us to think?

 

Actually, I do. I was on an airplane all day..

Overpriced, maybe. But inadequate? Nuh-uh. It WORKS, and nothing else is
proven to work. Ball's in your court, how do you answer? How do you
prove to an open-minded person that you aren't the one spouting the
bull? Fluids are tested to specifications for a reason. Where is the
laboratory data that says this magical mystery fluid meets either the
ATF+3 or ATF+4 spec? Do you troll the Honduh newsgroups trying to
persuade them that they don't REALLY need to use Honduuh-spec fluids too?

Somehow, I doubt that.

 

I've got a better one: I have more productive things to do with my time
than grant audience to some schlemiel intent on acting like a spazzed-out
six-year-old on Usenet.

Given he's said "Bye", "I'm out of here", "I'm leaving", etc. three or
four times now, I'd say you're probably right.

DS

 

Look bullshitter, get your facts straight.

Many oil companies sell ATF +3

There are 2 oil companies that sell ATF +4 "compliant" fluid, they are

Pennzoil with it's MultiVehicle ATF:

http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/D...df/MultiVehicleAutomaticTransmissionFluid.pdf

and Valvoline also claims ATF +4 compatability with their MaxLife fluid.

Furthermore as to the subject of warranties:

In November 2003 the ILMA http://www.ilma.org/ submitted a restraint of
trade claim to the
FTC regarding ATF +4. Text of that is here:

http://ilma.org/resources/ftc_dcc_letter.pdf

The FTC denied the claim because they said the following:

"we reviewed several DCC vehicle warranties and found that they do not
condition warranty coverage under the Act on the consumer's use of ATF+4
fluids. "A (DCC) owner could have maintenance service done at a
non-DaimlerChrysler facility that uses another type of transmission fluid
and this action would not void the warranty with respect to the
transmission,"

They said this because while DaimlerChrsyler's warranties exclude liability
for the costs of repairing damage or conditions caused by the use of any
fluid that does not meet the minimum requirements of ATF+4, the key legal
issue is that the automaker neither licenses the fluid nor publishes the
minimum recommendations. In order for DC to deny a transmission warranty
claim based on a trans fluid not meeting ATF +4 spec, they would have to
publish the spec.

So the upshot is you can simply ignore the Chrysler TSB's (which are not
legal documents and cannot be used
to deny warranty) and use ATF +3 in all your Chrysler transmissions
that call for ATF +4, and suffer no reprecussions as far as warranty
coverage. Hell, legally for that matter
you could probably use motor oil and suffer no warranty reprecussions. (I
am assuming the ILMA is probably attempting to get a trans warranty claim
denied by Chrysler as we speak, in order to go back to the FTC and tell them
that DC is in fact illegally denying claims, but I would also guess that
they have not yet found a DC dealership
that has denied a claim)

And it is also known and has been discussed before that the difference
between ATF +3 and ATF +4 is
that ATF +4 is synthetic and ATF +3 is not, so all you have to do is use a
standard fluid replacement
scheme for ATF +3, and a synthetic fluid replacement scheme for ATF +4.

And since you seem to like testimonials so much let me give you mine - I
bought a van that had a trans
rebuilt at 70K, I have 110K on that van now. The trans rebuilder only
warrantied for 6 months and
was one of those idiots that used Lubeguard + Dexron, NOT ATF. When I
bought it I changed
the fluid to ATF +3. And it is still running perfectly fine.

I think the real issue is the quality of rebuilding. The rebuilder you are
using quite obviously doesen't
know how to properly rebuild these transmissions and does such a bad job
that they only last a
short time. The amazing thing is that after 4 transmissions you still
haven't figured it out and are
getting caught up in this idea that the fluid is the key issue. Even back
in the bad old days when
Chrysler was recommending Dexron in these trannies -on the dipstick- people
were still getting
more life out of their trannies using the completely wrong fluid Dexron than
you are.

Ted

 

Whether you're out of here or not, you're blocked. You come to the site,
spamming and multiposting and then start whining when some respected posters
don't roll over and play dead at your claims.

Buh Buy

 

All of you guys are nuts. Just plain nuts.

You think anybody who comes here and does not
agree with you that Chrysler +3 or +4 is the
only ATF to use in a A604 just has to be
selling Amsoil.

You call people who are exited about the
stuff liars and bait and abuse them. Then
you ban them because they are abusive?

Well that is just wrong. You got your facts
wrong too.

ATF +4 is not really a synthetic. It is a
semisynthetic. The new German owners of
MOPAR are charging real synthetic prices
for it though. That sucks.

You guys claiming to be getting over 150
thousand miles on +3 with no problems are
exaggerating at best. Either that or you
are just really a lucky few aren't ya!

Your behavior here probably helps sell
more AMSOIL than anything else. That is
because you guys are unreasonable and
closed minded to the point of crazy and
downright dishonest. It is plain to see.
I noticed this quite a while back about
most of the fwd-mopar guys.

Now just watch these assholes accuse me
of selling Amsoil.

I use it in my A604 and it is fine! In
fact I can tell it is way better than
MOPAR ATF because it shifts better and
runs cooler and I even get more miles
per gallon.

You guys should be ashamed.

 

Drat, the jig is up. You've got us bang to rights. I'm a macadamia,
myself. I believe Steve is an almond, or possibly a pecan.

Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, craps like a duck...probably a
duck.

Only when they lie.

This is usenet. There's no such thing as "banning" someone from an
unmoderated group such as this one. Grow a brain.

But it is the one and only correct fluid for a lot of Mopar transmissions.

Now who's calling whom a liar?

Are you? If not, why is it so important to you that anyone else open their
eyes and see the Light, the Truth and the Way of Scamsoil?

Grand. We should care because...?

Y'know, I'd bet a week's salary that "mini3oh" and "fwd_moparasambuku" are
one and the same. They both act like ducks...with advanced dysentery.

Y'all come back now, hear?

*sound of screen door slamming*

 

Point of fact both Pennzoil and Valvoline do not say they meet the
requirements of ATF+4, they only say they can be used in Chrysler vehicles.
To me this is ambiguous and not clear at all and appears to of the AMSOIL
mentality. Saying so is not proof the proof is in the transmission lasting
150K without any issues.

 

I wondered about that too. I've seen too many labels on very low end
aftermarket tranny fluids that say they can be used in absolutely
everything including your washing machine when I know darn well it ain't
so (well - maybe the washing machine).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

At least he admits MOPAR ATF +4 is not really synthetic.

LOL

Maybe this guy works for the Petroleum Company that makes
MOPAR's overpriced semisynthetic for them?

ATF +4 will work OK. But it will not work as well as
REDLINE C+ or AMSOIL full synthetic ATF.

No semi synthetic can work as well as a full synthetic.

Paranoia strikes deep.

Like I said. They are a bunch of insanely biased
nuts. Or maybe THEY work for Daimler Chrysler.



People I only finally spoke up because all the
lies propping up Daimler's "ATF +3 or +4 only"
scam offends my sense of fair play. I just hate
seeing others ripped off by it.

At least use Valvoline ATF, because it is just
as good and it costs less.

If you want to upgrade to something far better
then get REDLINE C+ or AMSOIL ATF.

 

Carl,

I think you moderate a forum somewhere that is what
they call a usenet portal and you can block posts
that still show up on usenet if you want. Is that
right?

No matter. Censorship sucks no matter what. I notice
that many automotive forums link to this Google Groups
thread. The thing is that lots of them are censored.
Lots of them only show posts which make MOPAR ATF ONLY
nuts look good. Of course that means those forums have
only a few posts from this thread.

<giggle>

Stern,

Grow a brain yourself.

 

Now this is interesting.

I think Carl moderates a forum somewhere that is what
they call a usenet portal and he can block posts there
that still show up on Google Groups.

No matter. Censorship sucks no matter what. I notice
that many automotive forums link to this Google Groups
thread. The thing is that lots of them are censored.
Lots of them are only showing posts which make
"MOPAR ATF only" nuts look good. Of course that means
those forums have only a few posts from this thread.

<giggle>

 

Don't believe that car forums all over the Internet
which link to this public Google Group are censoring
it at their end?

Then paste the tittle of this thread into the Google
search engine. Do a web search. Don't do a groups
search.

Here is the tittle of this thread [as it appears
with the misspelling of MOPAR as Mpoar].


Re: A604-41TE Amsoil synthetic versus ATF+3 Mpoar 7176 ??


Then compare the contents of all the car forums with
the Google Groups uncensored master file of this
thread linked to below.


http://groups-beta.google.com/group...00ca1/ccad816ba23dcfc0?hl=en#ccad816ba23dcfc0



..

 

Now this is very interesting.



Daimler Chrysler: Lee Iacocca and Carol Shelby they ain't.




http://www.daimlerchryslervehicleproblems.com/


This speaks volumes about their corporate ethic.


http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/chrysler15e_20040615.htm



DCX accused of intimidation

Chicago dealers fault subpoenas

June 15, 2004

BY SARAH A. WEBSTER
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER

The controversy over DaimlerChrysler AG's lending policies in Chicago,
where the company is under a boycott and sales of the automaker's
vehicles continue to erode, appears to have escalated.

Two longtime Chicago automobile dealers accuse DaimlerChrysler of
harassing them because they plan to testify in a federal lawsuit on
behalf of a former dealer, who accuses the automaker of racist lending
policies. They say the company has made unreasonable requests for
documents through subpoenas.

Michael Christopoulos, president of Olympic Dodge in Chicago, and Pat
Fitzgibbons, owner of South Holland Dodge in a suburb of Chicago, are
coming to the defense of plaintiff Gerald Gorman.

In February 2003, Gorman and some of his minority customers filed
separate lawsuits against DaimlerChrysler, alleging that Chicago-area
DaimlerChrysler executives wouldn't give loans or fair interest rates
to black customers at his two dealerships because the stores were
located in minority neighborhoods. A dealer in Texas, Rick Perez, and
his customers filed similar lawsuits against DaimlerChrysler in late
2003.

DaimlerChrysler has maintained that it does not tolerate discrimination
and that the Chicago lawsuits are a smokescreen to cover up financial
and legal improprieties by Gorman's dealership, including falsifying
information on credit applications. The company has dismissed the Texas
lawsuits as copycats.

Chrysler spokesman Jason Vines said he said he did not know why
Christopoulos or Fitzgibbons would accuse the company of wrongdoing,
denied that the company has harassed or tried to intimidate them and
said this case is really about Gorman.

"This guy mismanaged his dealership. This guy defrauded his own
customers. And when he got caught, he created a smokescreen of racism,"
Vines said.

Christopoulos and Fitzgibbons, the former chairman of the Chicago Auto
Trade Association, recently told the Free Press that, like Gorman, they
witnessed top DaimlerChrysler executives in Chicago using racial slurs
and observed suspicious lending decisions involving DaimlerChrysler's
computerized system for evaluating and approving automobile loans.

"I had customers that came to my dealership to buy automobiles - were
turned down because I'm in a primarily and predominantly minority
area," Christopoulos said. "I've got the names of the people, so I
don't know how they're going to say this never happened to me, because
it did."

In depositions for the Gorman case, DaimlerChrysler employees have
alleged that the company's longtime former Chicago zone manager, Erv
Sirovy, regularly used racist language in the office for years and
asked the race of a loan applicant at least once. But both
Christopoulos and Fitzgibbons said they also plan to testify that
Sirovy's replacement, Ben Boggs, also made racist remarks related to
financing of vehicles for minorities.

While Sirovy said he was fired from DaimlerChrysler in 2001, before
DaimlerChrysler said it was aware of his remarks, Boggs is still
employed with the company. DaimlerChrysler has said it investigated
allegations that Boggs used racial slurs and found them to have no
merit.

Because of their impending testimony, both Christopoulos and
Fitzgibbons said they believe that DaimlerChrysler is trying to
intimidate them.

Christopoulos said it would probably take a month to produce all the
documents that the company has asked for in subpoenas. DaimlerChrysler
has asked his store to turn over all its advertising for the past four
years that "relates in any way to financing" and paperwork "for each
and every customer that purchased a vehicle with financing from Olympic
Dodge" between Jan. 1, 2000 and June 30, 2003, among other documents.

"This was designed in my opinion ... to scare me into not testifying
for Mr. Gorman," Christopoulos said.

Fitzgibbons received a similar subpoena.

"I'm a witness - not a litigant," Fitzgibbons complained. "It's quite
intimidating."

Gorman's attorney, Chris O'Hara, called DaimlerChrysler's latest moves
"harassment and delay" tactics.

Vines said the company's lawyers are being very thorough in their
subpoena requests because the charges are so serious.

"We don't believe it's excess at all and in no way serves as
intimidation," he said. "When you're trying to get to the crux of a
matter, you want to be thorough."

The lawsuits against DaimlerChrysler have sparked enormous controversy
in Chicago, where they have received substantial media coverage and
contributed to a high-profile, and seemingly successful, boycott of
Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Mercedes-Benz vehicles.

Between January and May of this year, overall sales of new vehicles
were down 3 percent in Chicago's Cook County. But they were down 26
percent for DaimlerChrysler's products, according to new-vehicle
registration data from Southfield-based R.L. Polk & Co. In 2003, when
the boycott began, new-vehicle sales for DaimlerChrysler were off 19
percent in Cook County compared to the prior year, but they were down
only 4 percent nationwide.

If the boycott is the reason for the lower sales, Vines said, "it is
grotesquely unfortunate considering the facts that are starting to bear
out in this case."

Depositions taken of Gorman's customers do allege suspect sales
practices at one of Gorman's two dealerships, such as customers being
charged arguably excessive fees, financing charges and prices. Five of
the eight plaintiffs in a lawsuit filed by customers in Chicago have
asked to withdraw from the case.

According to the depositions, there were lies on some customers' credit
applications, such as incorrect income levels, but it's unclear where
those misstatements originated. Testimony taken from at least one
DaimlerChrysler employee suggested some of the misstatements originated
at a place in the company's computer system that neither Gorman nor his
employees had access to. DaimlerChrysler also has fired one of its own
employees in connection with the fraud.

Several of the vehicle purchases that DaimlerChrysler is pointing to as
proof of improper behavior at Gorman's store occurred after the
automaker said it cracked down on fraud problems at the dealership.

DaimlerChrysler never reported to police the alleged fraud at Gorman's
dealership, which it said it discovered by January 2001, nor did it
shut down Gorman's two dealerships before he filed his lawsuit two
years later. Gorman sold his Marquette Chrysler-Jeep store in January
2003, and his Dodge of Midlothian store went out of business in October
2003.

Vines said that is because "you can't take the keys out of a bad
dealer's hand in one day."

This latest flare-up in the dispute seemed to begin after May 20, when
DaimlerChrysler sent a letter to its dealers that updated them on the
developments in the two Chicago lawsuits. In the letter, the company
accused Gorman of unethical business practices, denied wrongdoing and
wrote that "in the end, Chrysler Financial shut down a dishonest,
crooked dealership that was duping and defrauding both its customers
and Chrysler Financial."

Christopoulos said the letter irritated him and several other dealers,
who said the company should have known better than to try selling that
position to businessmen who have dealt with the company and its
management for years. Soon afterward, an anonymous fax - signed "A
Fellow Dealer" - was sent to Chicago-area dealers challenging
DaimlerChrysler's position.

Then, on May 27, Christopoulos wrote a letter to DaimlerChrysler that
questioned whose "brainstorm" it was to send the letter.

"I believe all of those things happened here at Olympic Dodge, and in
addition, we have been coerced by" senior managers, Christopoulos
wrote. "You know for a fact that loans for customers have been turned
down at my dealership then later approved at other dealerships. ... The
one thing they do agree on is that DaimlerChrysler, and most notably
their senior management, is not to be trusted."

On June 6, Christopoulos was served with a subpoena at home at 10:30
p.m.

"They could have served me at my office," he said. "If someone was
genuinely interested in getting these things, and not attempting to
intimidate you, they would call at 10 o'clock in the morning."

Vines said Christopoulos was not at the office when the company
initially tried to serve him.

Three days later, DaimlerChrysler responded to Christopoulos' letter.

"Chrysler Financial has not discriminated against the customers of
Olympic Dodge or any other dealership on account of the customer's
race," wrote Peter Guthrie, manager of the company's Chicago business
center.

"Chrysler Financial purchases retail installment contracts of vehicle
buyers living in all neighborhoods throughout the Chicago area."

 

I love my old Dodge. I hate Daimler Chrysler Corporation.


Amsoil was the very first producer of synthetic automotive lubricants.



You may wish to read this thread from the beginning.


http://groups-beta.google.com/group...00ca1/ccad816ba23dcfc0?hl=en#ccad816ba23dcfc0

 

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/chrysler9e_20050509.htm

At Chrysler plants, be loyal or hoof it

Ind. factories force workers who buy other cars to park far away

May 9, 2005

ASSOCIATED PRESS

KOKOMO, Ind. -- Workers at two DaimlerChrysler AG transmission plants
had better allow more time to walk in from the parking lot if they
drive Ford or General Motors vehicles.

A new policy that takes effect today designates about 80 percent of
employee parking spaces for Chrysler vehicles only and forces workers
to park much farther away if they drive a car or truck made by a
competing manufacturer.

In case employees forget, there are new blue lines painted on the
parking lot and signs that declare "DaimlerChrysler Parking Only" and
"DaimlerChrysler Vehicle Parking."

Workers have been told that non-Chrysler vehicles parked in the
reserved areas will be towed to Indianapolis at a cost of $200, the
Kokomo Tribune reported Sunday.

Chrysler spokesman Edward Saenz said most Chrysler plants across the
country have similar parking policies, but he said he did not know
exactly how many. Both transmission plants have ample parking, and the
new policy does not apply to vehicles with handicap plates, he said.

"It is a management initiative, but we believe it has wide support from
the employees," Saenz said. "It's a local decision."

The plants posted signs and painted the new lines about two weeks ago,
he said. Employees began receiving warnings last week leading up to
this week's enforcement.

Nine-year employee Bill Parks considers the new policy "a form of
harassment." He drives a Pontiac, made by GM.

"I think we have other issues going on in the company besides where to
park your vehicle," Parks said.

He is not disabled but has a back condition that occasionally flares
up. He bought his Pontiac as a second vehicle because he didn't want to
go into debt with two new Chrysler vehicles.

"I tried to find a good Dodge vehicle when I was buying this one, but I
couldn't find one at the time," he said.

 

As well they should. Hint for ya. When you go to your job at
McDonalds tomorrow try eating a Wendy's burger in the dining room and
see how well the management reacts.


Your not going to change anyones mind about Amsoil by acting like a
spoiled little boy who didn't get his way. Amsoil is right up there
with religion and poilitics... You believe what you want to believe,
I'll believe what I want to believe and in the end we'll all still be
worm food.

Steve B.

 

Did he ever claim it was a synthetic?

Umm... why not?