A bit of research on the ATF +3 ATF +4 issue

Aw, shit! There goes Ted's latest conspiracy theory! Now what'll he spend
his time on?

DS

 

I respectfully disagree with your conclusions about the ATF+4 fluid.

 

I know what your saying, but they all do it.
I own a '97 Chevy Full size CK PU, with 5sp Manual trans, and the spec
call for a special "fill for life" (yeah right) fluid. While I don't
need to change it near as often as my wifes inherited '94 Spirit, at
130,000mi, I decided to change it for the first time last spring, 4
quarts, $12/quart. Only available from GM.
At least all I had to do was drop the plug and wait for it to stop,
unlike the spirit I have to run for a minute with the trans cooler line
disconnected while pooring in new fluid to get the "other 2 quarts" out.

Ken

 

Let's see now, Bill Putney already posted that DC: Equilon (makers of
Havoline and
Shell oil products in the US) is one of the two manufacturers of it for
Chrysler.

So it appears that all you have done is go to Havolines site and chase down
to
the MSDS and located the MSDS for the oem products, which of course
include ATF+4.

I guess you still haven't read the ilma article here:

http://www.imakenews.com/flashpoint/e_article000113903.cfm

I'll repeat this very slowly so you can understand. Chrysler is not
permitting Havoline
to sell ATF+4 to the general public. Thus, you cannot buy Havoline ATF+4
from
the retail store. If you bothered to look you would find that ATF+4 is not
listed
anywhere on Havoline's website as a product available for sale to the
general public.

You claim that you can get it for 10 quarts for $59.99
Well, that's $10 a quart which is higher than what it costs to buy it at the
Chrysler
dealership. In fact, double the cost according to some people here.
Obviously
it is cheaper for the manufacturer that makes ATF+4 to sell it directly than
to sell
it to Chrysler who has to spend money handling it, then resell it. Since
according to
you the price is higher directly from Havoline, obviously Chrysler is
forcing Havoline
to price it above cost if Havoline tries to sell it directly.

If your still convinced that it's available through Havoline, then post the
instructions
on who to call to purchase it. I''m sure that the ILMA legal staff would be
most
interested.

Ted

 

No, Dan, this is not MY conspiracy theory. It is the ILMA's conspiracy
theory. Please
read the article:

http://www.imakenews.com/flashpoint/e_article000113903.cfm

Ted

 

Uh - 60÷10 = ? 8^)

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

That was just to provoke a response from Chuck. The actual price per
quart
at that is $6 but still that's at best only $2 cheaper than the gouging
dealerships
out there, and pretty even compared to the non-gouging dealerships. And of
course
even if the general public could get an auto parts place to order it, for
someone
who only needs a single quart to top off a transmission, they are going to
have to
go to the dealer.

I think that Neil Nelson really had it summed up with the comment about the
Ford
trannies. It seems that some transmission designers out there have a long
term plan
to seal off transmission fluid additions from the general public. In short
they want it
so that the average person cannot add transmission fluid to their vehicle.
For this to
work of course they gotta make the fluid last the life of the transmission,
thus the
move to synthetic ATF. Next is going to come a subtle campaign to convince
people
that trans fluid lasts the life of the car and never needs changing. Then
last they are
going to take away the dipstick.

It makes me wonder if perhaps Chrysler has seen a lot of warranty claims
paid out
over the years on transmission damage caused by use of the wrong fluid, and
they
want to put an end to that.

When it comes down to it I don't disagree with the idea of pricing
transmission
fluid in the $10-a-quart range if it's never going to need to be changed for
the
life of the vehicle. I just feel that it's rediculous to think that you can
design a
completely sealed lubrication system and have it run indefinitely. And I
also find
the claims that synthetic fluid is so much more fantastic than regular fluid
that it
removes the need for regular fluid changes, to be pretty undigestible.

Ted