'99 Intrepid

I've been hearing horror stories of damaged engines from having a
timing belt break. Does anyone know if my '99 Intrepid 2.7 liter engine
has a belt or a chain? I bought the car used and don't know if this has
ever been looked at.
The car now has 115,000 miles on it and runs great. I'm just a little
leary about a possible preventative maintenance issue that may have
been over looked.

 

Chain.

Larry
Behold Beware Believe

| I've been hearing horror stories of damaged engines from having a
| timing belt break. Does anyone know if my '99 Intrepid 2.7 liter engine
| has a belt or a chain? I bought the car used and don't know if this has
| ever been looked at.
| The car now has 115,000 miles on it and runs great. I'm just a little
| leary about a possible preventative maintenance issue that may have
| been over looked.
|

 

Lots and lots of discussion on this at www.dodgeintrepid.net forums -
they have a good search function.

Yes - as the other poster said - a timing chain. I have read of timing
chain failure, but they may have been secondary results of serious
sludge problems (for one thing, then tensioner is tenioned by the oil
system). From my reading, I think the majority of failures have been
due to oil starvation of other components (bearings, valve train) due to
the same severe sludging.

One thng that is claimed to kill a lot of them is the water pump that is
driven by the chain - I put designing an engine with the water pump
internal to the oil volume right up there with designing interference
engines with timing belts (not that this engine falls into the latter
category) as one of the most blantant examples of engineering
malpractice in modern automotive history. If they start leaking and are
not noticed or are ignored, then there will be serious damage (coolant
in engine oil). The other thing is that the engine is prone to severely
sludge up (related or not to water pump leakage). Mostly hiway driving
and good oil maintenance should make a huge difference with that (unless
the failures are always related to water pumps, in which case no amount
of oil changing or driving type will save it). There are those that
will tell you that that is always due to water pump failure
(catastrophic or long-term slow leakage, I'm not sure) - but I'm not
convinced. My gut feel is that there have been water pump failures,
which certainly would have been catastrophic (coolant in the oil and
bearings or plain old water pump lockup which tends to do a real job on
the timing chain and chain drive components) but that many failures are
oil sludge-up unrelated to pump failure (or I'm willing to believe slow
seepage of the water pump possibly in a large majority of cases).

My '99 2.7 has 145+ kmiles on it now and is running great - it gets
driven 80 miles a day 97% hiway, and I change oil at 3000 to 4000 miles
(I change filter every time), and I add 1/4 qt. of Marvel Mystery Oil
during every oil change as a sludge preventative (when I first bought it
at 58k, as a corrective). Am I just lucky that the water pump hasn't
leaked or otherwise failed, or is it doing so well because of the type
of driving and my "brilliant" maintenance plan? Only God and the DC
engineers know for sure because the latter ain't talking.
I can say that DC has very quietly done some simple mods to the engine
starting in either '00 or '01 to improve lubrication and breathing (for
one thing, they added a heat exchanger to the PCV hose which tended to
clog slam up with crud - I added that item to mine about 4 months ago).
I have to assume that they know all about the real causes of the
problems, and I doubt they'd be spending money on the lube system if the
water pump was the problem while usung it as the baseline engine in at
least one of their latest vehicle lines.

For max. water pump life, I use the recommended G-05 coolant only -
perhpas that is the other "brilliant" part of my engine maintenance that
has paid off.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

Oh - and whatever you do, don't panic and do what a lot of people do and
suddenly switch over to synthetic oil. For a heavily sludged up engine,
the cure's worse than the disease - synhteitc oil has a very high
inherent detergent property, and you don't want tons of sludge being
suddenly released into your lube system. I warn people constantly on
DI.net aboput that, and yet at least twice a month (two in the last 4
days) someone will post that they have 'X' (usually in the 85 to 120k
range) miles on their 2.7, and they switched over to synthetic, and a
few days or two weeks later, it is making all kinds of metallic knocking
sounds and getting worse.

For a high mileage engine that might be sludged up, you would have to do
a very gradual and deliberate cleanout before switching over to
synthetic. There are a couple of good ways to do that - one of which is
*not* a sudden kerosene or similar chemical flush. Personally I chose
not to go with synthetic, but have taken other measures to remove and
prevent sludge - but that also involves a similar gradual pre-cleanout.
Ask if interested.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

Thanks for clearing up my question on the timing chain. Now you've got
me wondering about the engine oil! I've been routinely taking my car
for oil changes every 5000 kms to the local Wal-Mart or Canadian Tire.
I assume that they are using an approved grade of engine oil for my
car. Does the oil that these two companies typically use cause
excessive sludge buildup? Should I be considering using something to
clean it up?

 

I bought my 99 Intrepid with 91,000 miles on it. I put Valvoline MaxLife in
it, and use the 3,000 mile schedule. After a couple changes, Valvoline came
out with a Synthetic MaxLife, which I now use. Just did my third change with
this oil, and no problems, or noises. Now at over 102,000 miles on this car.
I can still see some sludge through the oil filler opening in the valve
cover, so it's not "washing" away immediately, I guess. However, there may
not be a lot of buildup, as it appears this vehicle was well taken care of.
The only "oiling" problem I'm experiencing is that after some highway
driving, or a few shutoffs and startups around town, the Oil Pressure light
flickers on at idle. No noises, and goes out immediately on acceleration.
It's been doing this since I bought it a year ago.

Larry
Behold Beware Believe

|
| Oh - and whatever you do, don't panic and do what a lot of people do and
| suddenly switch over to synthetic oil. For a heavily sludged up engine,
| the cure's worse than the disease - synhteitc oil has a very high
| inherent detergent property, and you don't want tons of sludge being
| suddenly released into your lube system. I warn people constantly on
| DI.net aboput that, and yet at least twice a month (two in the last 4
| days) someone will post that they have 'X' (usually in the 85 to 120k
| range) miles on their 2.7, and they switched over to synthetic, and a
| few days or two weeks later, it is making all kinds of metallic knocking
| sounds and getting worse.
|
| For a high mileage engine that might be sludged up, you would have to do
| a very gradual and deliberate cleanout before switching over to
| synthetic. There are a couple of good ways to do that - one of which is
| *not* a sudden kerosene or similar chemical flush. Personally I chose
| not to go with synthetic, but have taken other measures to remove and
| prevent sludge - but that also involves a similar gradual pre-cleanout.
| Ask if interested.
|
| Bill Putney
| (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
| adddress with the letter 'x')

 

I would snoop behind them and make sure the changes are really being
done. I have seen first-hand way too many instances of people who pay
for such services but who obviously (to the shop) wouldn't know an oil
filter from and 02 sensor getting charge for oil and filter change and
not getting one or both. Before you take it in, find out what the
filter looks like and where it is located, check the level and color of
the oil on the dipstick,and notice some distinguishing marks on the
filter - or mark it yourself. Then when you get it back check, check
the oil and filter to see if the oil and filter have obviously been changed.

And yes - find out what oil and filter they are using, and if you have
choices, specify your own. It's a paradox for those not wanting to know
anything about their car and just trusting someone to do it and do it
right that the only way to not get totally screwed is to learn some
basics and actually crawl under it once in a while - which you are
paying someone to avoid having to do in the first place. But until the
lazy and greed genes are removed from humans, it's a fact of life.

I've got to wonder how many people have lost 2.7's because they were
paying for services, like oil and filter changes, that weren't being
performed and just didn't realize it.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

That's an known problem and an easy fix. It's covered in a TSB, and the
prescribed remedy really works. Replace the oil pressure switch and
install a vent wire (around $16 at the dealer for the vent wire). What
happens is that the pressure switch starts seeping oil into the sealed
switch connector cavity, which in and of itself is not a problem. But
that feeds pressure back to the ambient side of the pressure switch and
shifts its trip point so that under hot idle conditions when the oil
pressure is still adequate but at its lowest, the light will come on.
Speeding the engine up by taking it out of gear or pushing just a little
on the gas pedal will extinguish the light. The vent wire is strictly
for relieving back presure to the switch due to temperature changes and
if the new switch ever starts seeping.

As a precaution, you might have the oil pressure tested, but I'm 99%
certain that the new switch and vent wire will fix it - paying to have
the pressure tested will probably only give you assurance that you don't
really have a pressure problem, but I'd hate to see you not have it
tested and then later have a problem because of low oil pressure.

The TSB No. is 08-36-99. You might want to have that number in your
pocket when you go to the dealer to either order the parts or have them
do the install - otherwise, they'll probably not be able to find the
part number for the vent wire (you kind of have to lead them by the hand
on these things sometimes).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

Thanks for all of that information. I was planning on having the pressure
tested, just for peace of mind, if nothing else. I had heard about the
sending unit and vent wire. Will check into everything right away. Thanks
again!

Larry
Behold Beware Believe

| Larry Crites wrote:
|
| > The only "oiling" problem I'm experiencing is that after some highway
| > driving, or a few shutoffs and startups around town, the Oil Pressure
light
| > flickers on at idle. No noises, and goes out immediately on
acceleration.
| > It's been doing this since I bought it a year ago.
|
| That's an known problem and an easy fix. It's covered in a TSB, and the
| prescribed remedy really works. Replace the oil pressure switch and
| install a vent wire (around $16 at the dealer for the vent wire). What
| happens is that the pressure switch starts seeping oil into the sealed
| switch connector cavity, which in and of itself is not a problem. But
| that feeds pressure back to the ambient side of the pressure switch and
| shifts its trip point so that under hot idle conditions when the oil
| pressure is still adequate but at its lowest, the light will come on.
| Speeding the engine up by taking it out of gear or pushing just a little
| on the gas pedal will extinguish the light. The vent wire is strictly
| for relieving back presure to the switch due to temperature changes and
| if the new switch ever starts seeping.
|
| As a precaution, you might have the oil pressure tested, but I'm 99%
| certain that the new switch and vent wire will fix it - paying to have
| the pressure tested will probably only give you assurance that you don't
| really have a pressure problem, but I'd hate to see you not have it
| tested and then later have a problem because of low oil pressure.
|
| The TSB No. is 08-36-99. You might want to have that number in your
| pocket when you go to the dealer to either order the parts or have them
| do the install - otherwise, they'll probably not be able to find the
| part number for the vent wire (you kind of have to lead them by the hand
| on these things sometimes).
|
| Bill Putney
| (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
| adddress with the letter 'x')