'99 Intrepid - Dealer Stripped Oil Pan Drain threads?

i guess you won't be buying one then or any lh car even a 2005 with a new hemi

and it's aluminum pan

 

I disagree. They have depth. Like most oil pans, they are deep enough
that the oil level in a non-running engine is below the gasket plane to
reduce likelihood of leakage issues.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

That's right! The way Chrysler is going, my 2003 minivan is very likely
to be my last Chrysler purchase after nearly 30 years of pretty much
constant Chrysler/Jeep ownership.


Matt

 

Heh! This day and time that's kind of like saying "I refuse to buy any
car with disk brakes or ABS". 8^) (just me, Matt, piling on)

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

Took the car to the dealer today. When I dropped it off, I asked what they would
do to repair it. The service adviser said they typically used a helicoil for
stripped threads. I asked him specifically about the metal shavings, and he said
that they will not drop the pan, but it would not be an issue when they are done.
I was fairly assertive about this issue, so I hope they did the right thing.

Next I showed the cracked plastic around the screws on the passenger door, and
presented him with a printout of the TSB #23-04-00 text that Bill provided.

I didn't talk to the service manager directly, but apparently he took charge of my
vehicle, as the service advisers deferred to him when I later asked questions.
Unfortunately he was out on a road test when I picked up my car before closing.
They didn't charge for the repair but didn't have any receipts or paperwork
either. Something doesn't sound right about that.

Since I don't know exactly what they did, I plan to call back tomorrow to learn.
It was getting dark when I checked, but it looks like they didn't touch the door (I
still heard a slight rattle when the interior was cold), so I'll have to ask about
that too. I plan to ask him to send me the paperwork, or at least some kind of
receipt documenting the car was there for the service. On the other hand, they did
top off some fluids that were a tad low.

I looked under the car after I checked the oil level before driving off the lot,
and it appears to have the same plug as it always did--or at least one that looks
very similar. It didn't look like a rubber drain plug. I really hope there
aren't any shavings to worry about!

 

It would make sense that the plug is the same one - it's made of steel,
so it has no damage whatsoever. The aluminum thread in the pan is what
was damaged, and the helicoil (which it sounds like what they did)
restored the same size thread to the pan but with steel, so the threads
are much stronger than the originals, and if it was done right, you
should never have to deal with it again. As far as the metal shavings
in the pan, I don't know if it's a problem in reality - maybe they will
lie in the bottom of the pan and not get picked up and get splashed
somewhere that they could do any damage - probably would not be
significant even then. It's just the thought of leaving bits of metal
loose in there. His answer that it would not be an issue when they are
done sounds evassive - it could simply mean "We did nothing about it and
are of the belief that they will do no harm and will cross our fingers
and hope that is the case".

If the screw holes in the door panel are indeed the problem with that,
they're very inexpensive, but they will almost certainly have to order
the clips since there are several different parts they would have to
stock due to color choices. You'd think they'd tell you that though
instead of letting you guess, or maybe they're hoping you'll get tired
of dealing with it and stop "pestering" them with it - and yes, get
everything documented even if no charge - especially that the pan
threads were repaired in case anything does develop from that.

It's too bad you have to be such a PITA to get everything done and
documented, but it's like finances and medical treatment - you can't
just turn it over to the "professionals" and turn your back on it - you
have to know what's going on with your property.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

Can anybody say "Filter"?

Yes, there may be some splashing. But we are talking big lumps of metal
that a churning around in there. Not likely to be hurt by the aluminum
shavings in a pan, just like they are not hurt by the aluminum shavings
that might be circulated during the initial break-in.

The real damage would occur if the shavings were forced into the
bearings etc. that are presure lubricated. But before the oil gets
there, it goes through the filter.

Dan

 

So, Dan - please tell me what protects the oil pump from damage as the
chip laden oil makes it's way to the filter downstream of the pump? I
think you'd have to agree that it would be good practice to remove chips
from the lubrication system. Notice that the service manager did not
tell the OP that they were removing the chips. He only said they would
not be an issue - kind of a devious response I would say. If they
wouldn't be a problem, you'd think an honest answer would be in order
rather than weasel words like that.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

A savvy mechanic generally coats a rethreading tap with grease when there is
no chance of clearing any chips from the part. The grease will hold the
chips and the tap is run in only a turn or two and then retrieved, cleaned,
regreased, and then run in a little further. This is repeated until the
hole has been completed. I have used this method countless times with no
problems. In a flat rate dealer shop who knows if this was done that way.

Bill is correct as to an oil pump screen being nowhere as effective as an
oil filter at trapping particles.

--
Mike....................................................
"Opportunities are spawned from crisis"

So, Dan - please tell me what protects the oil pump from damage as the chip
laden oil makes it's way to the filter downstream of the pump? I think
you'd have to agree that it would be good practice to remove chips from the
lubrication system. Notice that the service manager did not tell the OP
that they were removing the chips. He only said they would not be an
issue - kind of a devious response I would say. If they wouldn't be a
problem, you'd think an honest answer would be in order rather than weasel
words like that.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

Boy, isn't that the truth. Years ago, my grandfather used to say that everyone has to be
their own doctor. I guess we have to be our own service advisors too.

I called the dealer again today and left a message on the service manager's voicemail,
inquiring both about what was actually done for the repair and the non-accomplished TSB
#23-04-00 for cracked door panel cracking (from previous window/lock microswitch repair)
as well. No reply to either yesterday's email or today's voice mail so far. Am I asking
too much?

I don't want to be a pest, but I would like to have an answer and documentation instead
of the silent treatment. It sounds as if they don't want this written down anywhere.
Why?

I don't mind buying the tabs from the TSB and taking a few minutes with a screwdriver to
install them myself. I typed in part number OUB471D5AA [Clip, Door Panel, Quartz] at
both http://www.worldparts.com/mckinneydodge/ and at
http://www.mechanicsvilledodge.com/parts.htm but both come up with no match found.
Hopefully the dealer parts counter will be able to find this.

Thanks! .

 

Well, to me, disk brakes are all advantage and no disadvantage compared
to drums. Maybe a little higher cost, but I think that difference is
also about gone today. ABS has both advantages and disadvantages, with
about equal proportion for the type of driving I do. An aluminum oil
pan has minor advantages, but much bigger disadvantages in my opinion.


Matt

 

I wouldn't worry too much about aluminum shavings anyway. Better to
have nothing in your engine other than oil, but at least the Al is as
soft as most other parts of your engine so it is not likely to cause
problems anyway. Hardened steel shavings are a whole nother animal.


Matt

 

It's just a wee bit of aluminium! |>) It's soft stuff!

Once through the oil pump won't do much !!??

And the oil won't exactly be "ladden" with chips. There really wouldn't
be that much aluminium in the system.

When chasing threads through to something you don't want filled with
chips, most will coat the end of the tap with grease. This will hold
most of the swarf while the tap is removed.

Dan

 

i have found most steel pans are liter than the aluminum one's and i think the
steel pans cost more to make since the alum. pans can be cast in sand with less
heat to melt the metal and therefore not needing tooling to make a steel pan but
correct me if i'm wrong

 

I agree - it may be more of a problem in theory rather than a problem in
reality, but I am looking at a picture of the oil pump with an inner
gerotor gear meshing with the outer rotor, and I imagine the stress,
both locally and across the entire pump housing, that would occur if a
3/32" chip of metal (be it soft aluminum) gets between the inner and
outer gear as they turn and close their gap to zero - I mean - can it
really compress a 3/32" chip to 0.001" thick without sever stress and
damage? I just don't relish the though of using an oil pump with
tightly controlled clearances as a soft metal press and shear.

Catastrophic failure? Probably not. But definitely not good practice
in my book.

Also, don't forget that to put in a helicoil doesn't only involve a
tap. The hole must first be drilled out - that will make larger chips
that will only partially be controlled by grease.

I guess this is why I do my own work. I would flush the hell out of
that pan after installing a helicoil. I guarantee the dealer is not
going to take the time to do it.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

Understood, but you missed my point, which was (the value or negative
aspect of a given feature aside) that when 95% of vehicles come with a
certain feature, you're severely limiting your choices by rejecting that
feature out of hand.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

I never did hear back from the dealership, until I received today's mail. They were kind
enough to mail me the paperwork, stating that a Helicoil was installed to the oil drain plug,
and a new drain plug was installed, Mopar Part # 6507741AA. This must be a new plug design
, the 98-99 Parts guide lists Mopar Part # 6504018 for the oil plug. The service manager had
mentioned he thought there was a new design when I talked to him before the repair.

The total invoice was for nearly $70, although they did not charge me. So (knock on
aluminum) I will assume they did good work, and while I wish the thread stripping hadn't
happened in the first place, I certainly do appreciate a lot the fact that they made good on
the problem.

As for the door panel clips, I'll have to stop by and order the part number. I wish I had
discovered the cracking at the screws right after the window repair. Meanwhile the car is
running great.

Thanks for all the advice guys!

 

Sounds like things are settling down for you. Glad you got things
resolved.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

That is true. When 95% of the vehicles have Al pans I will have no
choice. However, as long as I have a choice, I will look for steel. I
also don't like ABS, but the choices to avoid it are rapidly diminishing
as well. Two of my three vehicles have it and I drive the one without
it as much as possible in the winter. In the summer, the difference is
negligible.


Matt

 

I went in to have the oil changed in my '99 Dodge Intrepid. Th
mechanic told me that the threads were stripped on my oil pan when h
pulled the plug out. At first he told me that I would have to have
new oil pan. After some research on the Internet, I found that i
might be possible to instead use a helicoil. I then called my mechani
and told him this. He said they would try that. When he called me bac
to say it was repaired, he said that he had used a "piggy-back plug"
which was similar to a helicoil.

Just thought I would post this out there in case someone else has th
same problem. Hopefully it will save you over $400 like it did me