98 concorde starting problems

So, what you really meant to say is that re-circulating the fuel
allows a vapor locked engine to start by supplying cooler fuel.
The return line itself does nothing WRT the vapor lock condition.

Just wanted to see if you guys understand this as well as you
claim you do.

 

So, the whole basis of -your- aircraft analogy amounts to 'we
don't use them the same way as an automobile.' Like somehow that
is supposed to prove a point.
Don't do analogies anymore Gregg, you suck at it.

Nor does putting words in my mouth or mocking me just because the
three of you can't understand a simple concept.

Look; it's obvious that the three of you think you're dead right
on this, problem is, it's contrary to current accepted industry
practice and teaching. Matters not one whit to me if Matt and
Gregg didn't get the memo from Stutgart. Can't possibly be true,
Putney didn't read it on Intrepid.net, right?
Kludge work arounds that were utilized back when carburetors were
common and PCV valves were a mystery to you guys won't cut it in
todays world of increasingly tighter emissions controls.
You all want to believe that it's because ChryCo wanted to save
69 cents on some tubing, fine, have at it, I just hope that the
black helicopters don't keep you awake at night.

Frickin soccer daddy mechanics...

 

What is "they?"[/QUOTE]

That would be the universal "they."
The one size fits all "they."
The K-Mart Blue Light special "they."
The all major credit cards accepted "they."
The saved 69cents on some tubing "they."

Awww... you missed it. I'm truly sorry.

 

The vehicle is exhibiting symptoms specifically mentioned in a TSB for the
same
model year. It is reasonable to do the diagnosis procedures in the TSB.[/QUOTE]

Really? Because the only people to mention an engine heat soak
are you guys, the OP certainly hadn't.

71 degrees is not an engine heat soak.

Fuel doesn't vapor lock at 71 degrees, doesn't matter if there is
a leaking check valve or not.

Nice try soccer daddy mechanic.

 

Bad assumption Bill.
Maybe 'Neil beats his wife' will work better for you.

And I'm sorry that you're stuck in your cubicle doing the Dilbert
thing worrying about when your job will be sent to India.

Yup, you got it.
Couldn't help but notice that you have two things to contribute
to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
1) replace the input or out speed sensors on your 41te/41le
2) put cryogenically treated brake rotors on your ________, (fill
in the blank).

You're a two trick pony.

You (and that line of ducks behind you) can't even read a set of
symptoms and decide whether or not a clearly worded TSB applies.

Bill, you can only dream that you'd have that kind of power over
me.

Irrational would be you jumping to the conclusion that a car that
won't start at 71 degrees and/or with low fuel level is somehow
vapor locked.
Irrational would be claiming that it must be so because that's
the way it is in an airplane.

 

Well yeah, because it's an important clue.
Too bad it went right over your head.

Uh-Oh, the fuel rail is one degree warmer...

Not that I believe you for a minute, but just to humor you, I
went out and took some temperature measurements with my
infra-red, no Bill, no such thing occurs.
Please, don't assume that what happens to the interior of the car
happens to the underhood. There's this thing called
"circulation" that happens to the air under the hood when the car
is sitting.

Why, are they going to brain wash me into believing that the fuel
rail in a car sitting outside on a 72 degree day gets scalding
hot?

"Got ahold" implies a one time happenstance.
From what the OP states, this has been an on going problem.
Nope, don't buy it. But please, spin some more.

Like I've been saying, he -does- have "some other problem."

Bill, I've dealt with hundreds of leaking check valves and
hundreds of leaking injectors and never, ever has there been an
associated complaint with "temperatures above 70 degrees and low
fuel level."

Bill, get an LH fuel pump module and trace out the fluid paths,
it will become obvious what the problem is. Be open minded,
realize that this fuel pump doesn't just pull fuel in off of the
bottom of the tank, realize that the return circuit -has- to
supply enough excess fuel to keep the pump inlet submerged.

 

Actually, being you sounds worse.

Matt

 

WELL SAID!!

 

It flushes the hot fuel and any vapor bubbles which have formed through
the system and back into the tank and provides cool fuel to the
injectors. Is this really a hard concept for you to understand?

Matt

 

As is a keyboard.

Matt

 

It is when you are:

1) wrong
2) have a small mind
3) all of the above.



Matt

 

It also prevents vapor lock in low pressure delivery systems by keeping
the fuel cooler during operation.

Matt

 

'er you go again letting your emotions run away with you causing you to
make false assumptions again. If you knew what I did for a living,
you'd know that there was no way.

Whad ya do? A google search on my name to check past stuff. Weird. I
have a few more tricks than those which if you really kept up instead of
doing a quick search you'd know.

Oh - BTW - you might also learn some cool stuff about grain structure in
metals from taking a couple of materials science courses
(again - at your nearby engineering school). Then you'd understand why
cryogenic treatements work. But you really don't want to know, do you.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

 

Correction: I meant to say return line _system_ provides . . .

The return line certainly does do something. It permits relatively cool fuel to
flow, displacing a quantity of warmed fuel that could not immediately be consumed
by the engine.

No problem.

 

Not at all. Return line systems permit relatively cool fuel from the tank to
prevent vapor lock conditions. That is as true for cars as it is for airplanes.
The only difference is that many cars today use a fuel system that maintains
pressure for sometime after shutdown to prevent vapor lock. Chrysler states that
there is a problem with this pressure being maintained in some 1998 LH vehicles,
and vapor lock can occur.

I noticed that you need to resort to personal ad hominem attacks, but it doesn't
make your argument stronger or accurate.

No mocking nor putting words in your mouth from this author. In fact I took the
trouble to quote and attribute your words verbatim.

Actually my argument was to follow the exact diagnosis procedures supplied by the
manufacturer, Daimler-Chrysler. I believe you will find that D-C is part of the
accepted industry.

If a mechanic who reads and follows service bulletins (and their diagnosis steps)
from the manufacturer of a vehicle is a "soccer daddy mechanic," then that's who I
want servicing my vehicles.

 

Oh my mistake. I had thought you were talking about cars and PCMs. I
missed your transition to rambling. Your first name wouldn't rhyme with
Floyd by any chance, would it? ;-)

 

Really? Because the only people to mention an engine heat soak
are you guys, the OP certainly hadn't.[/QUOTE]

Actually he had said, "so far there are only 2 conditions that it wont start
that often. when its low on gas, and when its hot." When a car is hot is
another way of saying when it has a heat soaked engine.

I never claimed that it is.

Irrelevant to the Chrysler Service Bulletin.

There's that term again I can't diagnosis somebody's car over the Internet
as you seem to be able to claim the ability to have, but I do point out that the
OPs problems are listed as the symptoms in the TSB(s) and the OPs vehicle is a
make model and year that is covered by the same TSB. Therefore I would follow
the manufacturer's diagnosis procedures in that TSB first.

 

Again, the symptoms were: "so far there are only 2 conditions that
it wont start that often. when its low on gas, and when its hot."

He didn't say when the car is 72 degrees he says when the car is HOT (and/or
low on gas). (72 degrees is hardly hot anyway).

Except the OP also said when the car is low on gas and/or HOT (emphasis added).

 

OK, Are you finished arguing with every single post?

Christ I don't know who's worst AARCuda who has yet to diagnos anything,
Really have you actually posted anything to help an OP? No seriously? Have
you. I googled haven't found one!

And Bill, What the ****, are you ASE certified? No, Do you own every year
and model of the LH series? No! So you are not an expert!

And airplanes are not even similar to any Vehicle, So shut the **** up.

So guess what, All three of you babies, should get a time out and sit on the
stairs and think of what you did. ( one minute per year of age)

Actually none of you know the problem! That's right. Neither of you. Unless
you are looking at the actual vehicle you know nothing. Symptoms are not the
same for all vehicle so shut the **** up?

That's it thats all! Any lip from you and you'll get the black snake across
your asses.