'95 LHS AC auto temp control

gosh - do I dare post an AC question, lol????

OK - '95 LHS, 118,000 miles. compressor was replaced about 3 years ago
and that's the only problem I've ever had with the AC.

It can still make ice cubes.....but recently has a new quirk.
Apparently, the auto temp control takes its cues from the same sensor
that controls the outside temp display. Lately, I drive to work in the
morning with the auto AC on set to 71.......it's maybe 68 degrees out.
Auto system works fine: varies setting to maintain constant temp, turns
the compressor on and off, etc.

It's parked in the hot sun all day........maybe 88 outisde when I leave
work. But the outside temp display still has the morning reading on it
( 68 ). The AC won't go on full blast automatically because it still
thinks it's 68 outside. So I turn the temp setting down to 65 and it
will come on........temp reading stays at 68 for maybe 20 minutes, then
rapidly runs up to the actual outside temperature at which point I can
set in on Auto again and all is well.

A problem in the making? - or just the result of big temp swing during
the day (but never did it before).

Thanks!

 

Hi...

I sure don't have the answer, but for whatever it may be worth
I've never heard my fan (94lhs) go higher than about the middle
speed by itself, so...

An experiment. Went out about 10am, console said 69 degrees... which
would have been pretty close to what it was. Drove about 5 miles,
still 69F. Parked for 3 hours, real temp rose to at least 80.
Came out, started the car and still said 69 degrees all during the
5 mile drive home. Let it sit for several hours, just went out and
started it in the driveway, still 69 degrees. And if it means anything,
choosing 72f full auto gave medium fan speed with output air at 50f idling.

I wonder if someone will tell us where to find the outside air sensor?
Maybe dirty with "insulating" kinds of dust and grime?

Also, just in case it means anything, all of the other functions
on the oh console work fine.

Take care.

Ken

 

Thanks Ken......

sounds like a common symtom if not a problem.

the temp readout in the car has always been my most accurate
thermometer. I always check it before I back out of the garage in the
morning.....and it will start to react to the different outside temp
before the garage door is all the way down.

So this is apparently a hot weather quirk. I don't have a shop manual,
but have a Chiltons or Haynes somewhere and will check to see if it
shows location of the outside sensor. (assume yours is the same as
mine: for the interior temp, a little fan behind the nameplate on the
dash sucks interior air and runs it by a sensor.........this was my
first Chrysler and made me crazy wondering what the sound was when I
opened the door = pretty clever and surprised that still works after 12
years !).

Jim

 

Hi Jim...

Interesting coincidence... first Chrysler for me too, after a
very long lifetime of nothing but GM. And I, too, drove myself
nuts trying to figure out what I had left on

Don't bother with Chilton, I've been through it carefully, and the
only thing that even comes close is the IAT sensor. Nor is it
mentioned in the owner's manual. Don't have Haynes.

Mine's still at 69f, but our overnight low is 13C (I'm Canadian, that's
about 55F), so I'll get up with the sun (as us old guys do) and check
again then.

Take care.

Ken

 

Hi again...

Still find nothing for ours, but this might give us a place
to at least start looking ?

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php?t=670

Take care.

Ken

 

You guys might consider searching or posting on www.dodgeintrepid.net
forums. You should be able to find specific info. there on first gen.
LH cars.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Hi Bill...

Thanks, appreciate the tip...

For what it's worth to Jim, got up this morning with the weather
channel saying it was 50F here. Car outside facing away from the
sun. Turned on ignition (not started) and the display read 55F.

Suspect that it may be working, but just reacting very very slowly.

Take care.

Ken

 

Alldata shows my '99 Concorde's ambient temp sensor to be located on the
inside of the right front bumper beam.
-Glenn

 

Thanks, Glenn, much appreciated.

Jim, on ours (assuming they're the same) just lie down with your head
under the driver's side fog lamp and look up. You can't possibly miss it

Take care.

Ken

 

The ambient temp sensor is used by the ATC system to adjust blower speed,
temperature offsets, evaporator temperatures and mode control. If the
sensor
fails the ATC system will use the battery temperature information as a
back
up.
The In Car Temperature Sensor is part of a motorized aspirator assembly
that
is mounted in the instrument panel. A small fan (in the sensor) draws air
through an intake on the instrument panel . This air flows over a
thermistor
which measures inteior vehicle temperatures In-Car Temperature Sensor.The
ATC system then makes adjustments to maintain the optimum passenger
compartment comfort.

The In-Car sensor will automatically turn on when a vehicle door is
opened.
If the door is left open, the In-Car Sensor will automatically turn off
within approximately 5 minutes. If the door is then closed, but there is
no
ignition start, the In-Car Sensor will automatically turn off after about
2
minutes. After the vehicle has been driven, the In- Car Sensor will turn
off
immediately when the ignition is turned off. The aspirator motor in the
In-Car Sensor operates whenever the ignition switch is ON (even when the
ATC
system OFF button is pushed). The fan will accumulate alot of dirt and
dust
buildup and can prevent the motor from spinning. When this happens the
in-car sensor becomes useless. pop off the vent that has the name plate
on
it and blow out the sensor/motor assembly



Glenn Beasley

Chrysler Tech

 

Thanks to all for the input......I'll be looking under the
bumper/foglight to check out the ambient temp sensor.

Found my Haynes guide.....it more or less sez it's too complicated to
fool with - leave it to the dealer. No diagrams, but also talks about a
sunlight sensor as well as outside temp......another can or worms.

Was cooler here and less sunny today, and both the AC and the
thermometer functioned fine.

I dread the day when something major goes wrong with this car - it's
replacement will be less roomie and comfortable, I'm sure. So far, with
all the gadgets it has, the only thing that doesn't work is the
passenger door power lock..........think that's a pretty good record for
a 12 year old car!!!!!

 

Everything works on my '95 Concord and it still performs very well,
actually like new.
Yes lovely space that I'm reminded of every time I get in my wife's
Sebring with it's sloping front door tops and much less space for the
front passengers feet.
As for the auto climate, for years I've run it on manual fan.
I just don't like the fan going at high speed.
The auto temp works OK most times, but is fooled by the sun coming and
going.

 

The outside sensor has been like that all along, and you just never noticed
it before. The reason is that the underhood temperature is 150 degrees,
sitting there in the hot sun all day.. Now, the old car's not all that
smart, but it's smart enough to know it's not 150 degrees outside. So it
doesn't know what to do until the temperature drops.

I think if you leave the inside temp on auto it'll still go to max AC after
a while. It seems like it takes a long time sometimes.

 

Hi Joe...

As an experiment to find out whether or not mine might be faulty,
I unplugged it. That (instantly) made the temp on the display read -70F

That should have really confused it - only way it could be
-70F outside and +85 inside is if it were sitting in Antarctica
with the interior on fire

However, everything operated just the way it normally would have.

Take care.

Ken

 

Wifey's 93 Vision TSi is getting a little gnarly on the interior (cheap
plastic AC grille vents are all falling apart, mainly). The cupholder
finally broke a few weeks ago. But mechanically and exterior wise, its
still running well and looking good at 245,000 miles. Everything works
except the overhead console display. Its been a great car, and nothing
on the market quite matches some of its features. The only bad thing
about it is front drive, but its about the least awful front drive I've
ever driven.

 

We know you have a mental block about FWD.

 

I don't like cars that understeer like dumptrucks, and I don't have to
deal with snow. Don't get me wrong, I couldn't have been happier with
our purchase of the Eagle back in March of 1993, but back then the only
rear-drive options were Ford and GM. With GM it would have been that
godawful ugly bathtub Caprice, and with Ford it would have been an early
Modular V8 powered Panther platform and the early Modular v8s didn't
hold up to well. Given those facts, I have NO doubt that we made the
right decision.

 

Chrysler electronics on the first gen LH cars are MUCH more
sophisticated than anything Ford, GM, or most other manufacturers had
back then. The a/c control on those cars has many more "options" than
most others, too. As in if you have it on "AUTO", then manually adjust
the fan speed, it kicks out of full "AUTO". Just one click on the
rotary fan switch is all it takes.

When on "AUTO", the fan speed WILL respond to additional light input
from the sun coming out from behind the clouds, keying on the additional
ambient light to adjust the a/c fan speed up for the anticipated heat
load . . . and vice versa. That sensor is part of the center item in
the middle of the instrument panel, near the front middle, which also
has the flashing light for the factory security system.

I generally worried more about the temperature and air duct selection
than fan speed. The first gen LHS was my "rent car of choice" when they
were new . . . from Dollar. Then, when the Y2K New Year's Eve was about
to happen, I ended up with a 300M rental from Dollar, even bought LDW
(just in case), so I'd have the keys to a neat new Chrysler in my pocket
should anything happen at that (allegedly) fateful hour. Our Mopar Club
was doing New Year's Eve parties rather than Christmas parties at that
time, so I was also in good company.

You can probably still get the factory Chrysler service manual for those
cars. I bought one when my parents bought their '95 LH New Yorker.
Knowing how GM did things back then, the electronic sophistication of
the Chryslers makes GM products look like . . . well . . . "not fully
bloomed, but less expensive to build", might be a nice way to put it.

Their '95 LH NY has about 105K on it now. Worst nagging thing is the
noisy door checks, which "click" when you open the door. Trying to lube
things so they work smoother only makes it worse. I think a bushing or
something on the hold-down screw went away or something?

It's been serviced by the small town dealer they bought it from. When
they got it in the later part of the model year, it was the dealer's
wife's demo. My mother did not want an LHS (due to the "stick shift",
as she's from the generation where stick/floor shifts were only on
lower-level, less expensive cars), so the column shift NY works great
for her.

At the 6 yr mark, although the mileage did not recommend a timing belt
replacement, the dealer did. She approved that repair, so that was done
then. Later, word came out about BFG not warrantying tires over 6 yrs
old, due to deterioration of the rubber/cord in the tires, due to age .
. even if they had never been mounted. So, that deal was gotten out
of the way back then.

It had to have a pair of tie rod ends, which caused a noise similar to
loose shocks in the front end. Got the steering a little tighter, too.

My mother drives the car daily, so every time she gets in, the power
locks are worked. Several months ago, the rh rr lock actuator stopped
working. Dealer replaced that during a normal oil change service.

Then the power antenna hung mid-travel. Got that fixed, too.

The orig Eagle GAs were replaced at about 35000 miles. I don't recall
why, as it looked like they'd easily go 60K at that time, but she ended
up with a set of Michelin Symmetrys on it. I don't think they might
make it through the winter, though, but we'll have to see how that goes.
Never has had an alignment, that I know of, yet all of the tires are
wearing flat and even, with no real need to rotate to even out the wear.

At about 3 yrs, the factory battery failed. The dealer put in an
Interstate battery at that time, using a different cable end on the
positive cable (as flaky as that might have been). When she took it it
two oil changes ago, the service man came in and asked if it'd been hard
to start, or slow to start. My mother said that it did sometimes. She
asked "Why?" He said that they noticed it turned over a little slower
than normal, so they put the computerized checker on it and it came back
"REPLACE". So she got a new battery like the old one that had lasted
about 8 years.

Now, after the battery replacement, she noticed that the overhead
console display was working normally again. I think she noticed it
being a little dim AND the temperature display was not accurate--before
the battery replacement. She had asked me about it being a little off
and I replied that sometimes they were not completely accurate . . . so
much for that.

Seems like there was a deal with the a/c belt tensioner or something
similar?

Several years ago, I mentioned that she might ask them about doing a
trans fluid/filter change, but I don't think it ever got done.

At one time, it had the torque converter shudder under certain light
throttle settings going up a slight grade. I told her, when that
happened, to back out of the throttle, let the speed drop a little, and
then use more throttle to get up to speed (before the signal to lock-up
the converter was given). It didn't matter how long you let it shudder,
unless either the speed or throttle setting was increased, it would keep
doing it. The dealer had a "fix kit" for that, which I suspect was from
Chrysler, which helped it. Don't know if the fluid ever got changed or
not. I know there's a toggle switch modification for that situation in
the FAQs.

At some time in the future, it's also going to need struts. They are
still good for smooth roads, but a few undulations can put a little too
much float into things.

As for the factory service manual, I think it's probably about $50+ USD
now, but welll worth it. There should be an order blank in the back of
the owner's manual. You can probably go online to order one from the
printer.

To me, the first gen and second gen LH cars are some of the best
Chryslers ever built and designed--period. Even if they are front wheel
drive. They have an athletic feel in the chassis that is "light on
their feet" rather than the ponderous soft feel of similar GM cars,
similar to how prior rear wheel drive Chryslers felt, in that respect
(steering response and flat cornering).

In an AutoWeek commentary on the then-new LHS, they had previously
driven a last-gen Buick Park Avenue (96?) when it was new. They'd taken
the PA up into the hills (somewhere) to a fancy steak house. Those PAs
handled pretty decently, they observed, on those roads. Then, a week or
so later, they took an LHS to the same place. They commented that they
just THOUGHT the Buick PA handled well . . . when they noticed they were
driving the same roads about 10mph faster AND not noticing they were
driving faster at all in the LHS. It was THAT easy to do.

By observation, if you run the tire pressures at 32 frt/30 rr, it'll
make the steering response even better at it better matches the tire
pressure to the weight distribution of the car. A little tighter
steering response AND less understeer (understeer which is way less than
any other fwd car of that type!).

When the last gen Park Avenue came out, I went to a ride-drive event for
it. They had three versions of PAs there. The base car, the base car
with upgraded GranTouring suspension, and the PA Ultra (supercharged V-8
and upgraded suspension). They also had a bench seat LHS there, plus a
fwd Continental and something else of that nature.

In the handling section of the driving course, it was a 20mph slalom.
The product specialist that was riding along with me told me to just
drive through the cones and not worry about the speed, which he'd
monitor.

In the base PA, by the 3rd cone, I was mowing down cones. Understeer and
Goodyear Conquest tires were the culprits. Even at just over 20mph.

In the Ultra, I was mowing down cones again, at 22mph, but due to the
MagnaSteer power steering rack's magnets not switching fast enough.

Then in the Lincoln, it had super easy steering and the cones were a
"goner" again. This time due to massive understeer.

Final was in the LHS. I drove through the cones at about 26mph and
didn't hit one! It steered clean and easy and accurately. No real tire
noise either. I suspect that my many rental car experiences (many miles
of "seat time") did not hurt, but with cars all of the same general
wheelbase and size, it was a decent test.

As you might can tell, I like those LH cars a lot. And, as my mother's
NY can prove, it's been a very trouble-free car too. Averages about
22mpg in the way she drives.

In the weekend trips I'd take in them, when new, they usually did 26mpg
on the highway (65-70mph cruise conditions). A similar Concorde, with
smoother over-the-car aerodynamics and a little smaller front end
"profile" would do 27.5mpg in similar conditions, both with the same
spec 3.5L V-6.

When I drove their '95 NY on the highway a while back, I noticed that it
would "Instant MPG" at about 30mpg at 60mph, which closely matches what
a 300M will do with the 2nd gen 3.5L V-6 in it (when new, which also
matches the percentage increase in mpg which Chrysler quoted for the
newer engine versus the earlier one).

My rental car experiences with the 300M resulted in highway "Instant
MPG" of 30mpg at 60mph, which dropped to 27mpg at 90mph, with only
700rpm difference in engine speed. I think this proves how good that
engine design is, with respect to fuel economy AND the aerodynamics of
that chopped-off rear end 300M body.

For comparison . . . a '07 Impala LT with the VVT 3.9L pushrod V-6, 240+
horsepower, will get 30mpg at 70mph, in 3cyl mode. All the Chrysler V-6
has is OHC and a dual-path intake manifold setup, by comparison. And,
of course, the 3.6L VVT DOHC GM V-6 in the Cadillac CTS, STS, and Buick
LaCrosse, with similar 240 horsepower will get about 30mpg on a
smooother road at a 60-65mph cruise, but when the speed goes above about
70mph and the roads have ups and downs, that mileage goes "south"
quickly. So when you compare how much "tech" it takes for a GM engine
to return similar power and fuel economy as a less-tech, but
well-designed, Chrysler engine fo the same size . . . somebody's
spending a LOT of money for not much advantage.

I HAVE rented a few of the LY chassis cars. They are nice, for sure,
and the HEMI power is neat, but they feel big and more ponderous than
the prior LH cars. The suspension tuning on the R/T is more "consumer"
than "higher performance", from my own observations. I also feel they
gave up too much fuel economy for that "blocky" look, a look I like,
though. Be that as it may. And fuel economy took a hit, as did
performance, with the extra weight of that body, too.

Interesting thing is that for the same EPA fuel economy . . . you can
drive a new Mustang V-6 coupe . . . or a Charger R/T HEMI. Tough
choice???? Not really! HEMI RULES!

So . . . for y'all with the flaky temp readings, you might do a load
test on your batteries and see how they stack up. That might be the
whole situation, as it was on my mother's '95 LH NY.

Enjoy!

C-BODY

 

Definitely. If they had ONLY given them headlamps better than a pair of
candles... :-/ We've liked my wife's 93 Vision enough that many years
ago I shelled out for a pair of E-code headlamps for it- about $500
worth of "shelling" te be exact, plus some fabrication to do the
installation. And that's not even an option on anything but the Eagle
Vision or Chrysler Concorde, because no one ever *made* E-code lamps in
the Intrepid or LHS/New Yorker headlamp form-factor.

 

Possibility that the Eagle Vision and Chrysler Concorde were the only
models they exported to Europe?

I remember many posts in here (back then) about how "lacking" the beam
pattern was on those headlights. Plus some people putting 100W bulbs in
them and melting the plastic headlight housings.

Enjoy!

C-BODY