72 Satellite won't start, carb floods

History: I've had the car about 5 months, about 1-2 weeks ago I
started experiencing some hard starting, finally wouldn't start at
all. Checked under the hood and the carburetor was loose enough to
almost just lift off of the motor. I tightened it down, but still
have the same problem.

A friend of mine thought it might have been a timing issue and said I
should look at the distributor. The pickup looked really rough
(instead of the .008" gap, the metal piece that was supposed to be
protruding from the coil was sunken in) so I replaced that, as well as
the rotor button, which looked like it had a small indentation. Also,
I noticed that the hose to the vacuum controller on the distributor
was disconnected and plugged with a screw. I reconnected that and
tried to start - same problem.

Same friend said from my description of the old pickup that the
bushings in the distributor might have worn out causing the reluctor
to wobble and hit the pickup.

I'm pretty comfortable replacing parts and everything but I tend to
shy away from stuff that might screw up my timing (like removing the
distributor) Is there anything else I could do to get a better idea
of what's going on before I haul this to a shop and throw myself on
their mercy?

 

Your subject says "carb floods" but the messsage doesn't address this at
all. Is the carb actually flooding the engine? Is the carb even getting
fuel? If its flooding, check the carb float level and check the float
valve for sticking. If its not getting fuel, check the fuel filter and
fuel pump.

And as far as replacing parts but not wanting to affect timing, you
need to bite the bullet and buy a timing light.Its simple, especially on
a Chrysler v8 engine where the distributor shaft can only go in 1 of 2
ways, unlike a Chevy or Ford where you have to mesh the teeth on the
drive gear every time you remove the distributor.

Check the fuel delivery, check for spark at the plugs, check the PLUGS
to make sure they're not fouled from running too rich.

 

Be advised the caruretor with which your car was originally equipped, a
Carter BBD, has 3 castings. The bottom casting is the throttle body, the
centre casting contains the float bowl, metering jets, air bleeds and
venturis, and the top casting is the air horn with choke. The top casting
is held to the middle casting with screws that go in from the top. The
middle casting is held to the bottom casting both with top-down *AND*
bottom-up screws; the latter are accessible only by removing the
carburetor from the manifold.

Given the other hacks you've described as having been perpetrated on this
poor car in the past, it's highly likely the timing's already screwed up.
Buy a timing light.

DS

 

Yes the carb is definately getting gas. I haven't actually opened it
up, but I tried un-sticking the float valve by tapping on the front of
the carb. My thought was check the plugs for spark then then open up
the carb and see if it's stuck, but the guy who's advising me on this
one says if the carb's getting gas then the engine would probably
start (after the tapping) but maybe not stay running and he thought it
was a timing issue.

One question on checking the timing, can I get a good reading on an
engine that's not fully running in relatively cold weather?

 

If the carb floods them most likely the float is cracked, is gas
logged and must be replaced. This is a recurring problem on all carbs
with the modern fuel formulation.

 

The float may well be heavy -- it can happen -- but you're overstating the
case when you claim it's a problem on "all" carbs with modern fuel
formulations. In the first place, it's only oxygenated fuels that are
radically different enough to "olde tyme" gasoline to cause problems with
plastic and elastomeric fuel system materials. In the second place, the
OP's car has a Carter BBD carburetor...with a brass float that doesn't
care what sort of gasoline is used.

DS

 

IF the ignition system is producing a spark, you should be able to get a
timing reading by having a helper crank the engine while you aim the
timing light at the marks.

If the ignition is not working or the timing is SO far off that you're
nowhere near the timing marks when the light flashes, position the
engine at TDC on the compression stroke of #1 piston and rotate the
distributor housing until it the reluctor prong is aimed directly at the
pickup prong.

The other possibility is that the timing chain has jumped. Does the car
SOUND normal when you crank it with the starter?

 

The BBD, like all Carter carbs except some models of the Thermoquad,
uses soldered brass floats that are unaffected by fuel. One of the
(many) redeeming features of Carter Carburetors.

Soldered brass floats can crack and leak, but its not because of the
fuel attacking them.

 

It basically sounds like its cranking with no ignition. Except for
the occasional brief sound of it firing a little bit but not catching.
What should I listen for?

 

I remember my dad having a '73 Satellite with a 318 engine. I would race it
against the local Camaro/Firebird drivers and whoop their a$$!

Anyhow, Have you checked the ballast resistor on the firewall? My
understanding was that during starting, the resistor is bypassed and when on
the run position, juice flows through it. Something like that!

If not, I would think it to be the timing chain and gears. I remember
replacing this on my dads. It's was a very easy think to do. Good Luck!

Jesse

 

My carburetor has a metal tag on it that says:

6150SA
1722 08

Does that make it the original Carter BBD?

What effect do you think having the vacuum advance disconnected would
have on the engine in the long run? I'm wondering if the guy that had
the car before me did something with the ignition system on purpose,
or just knocked the hose out and didn't know where to put it back.

 

My carburetor has a metal tag on it that says:

Carter BBD (Small)
1972 318-2v w/o NOX and Automatic Transmission
All A,B,C,E bodies for 1972 with the above options....

Probably.

 

A jumped chain will usually make it crank much faster than normal
(reduced compression). A BROKEN chain will make it crank with an uneven
weird-sounding rhythm because each cylinder sees a different combination
of open/closed/half-open valves.

 

No. It just means that you're wasting fuel during cruise.

Or thought it was a "speed trick." When building a Chrysler engine for
dragstrip duty, different mechanical advance springs are used inside the
distributor and frequently the vacuum advance is left disconnected
completely. Some people get the (wrong) impression that simply
disconnecting the vac. advance will give them more power. Not true- its
just done when the rest of the distributor is re-timed so that peak
horsepower comes on WITHOUT any vacuum advance.

 

However, if the car is left to sit long enough for the fuel to
evaporate completely from the bowl, the float can stick to the bottom
of the bowl... in which case a "jiffy kit" (assuming that it was
running well before this occurrance) and a good cleaning will fix
everything right up.

nate

 

I would go the least of the two or three evils first, invest 4 bucks into a
ballast resistor for your fire wall.... LOL, I had one go bad on me, took me
4 days of cussing to find it... Cheap fix if thats waht it is, Chuck

 

Replaced the ballast resister. I also opened up the carb just in case
it was a stuck float, but the float seemed to be moving freely and the
carb had gas in it.

One strange thing happened yesterday. I had jumper cables hooked up
to the car while we were trying to rotate it around to check the
timing. After being hooked up for a few minutes, the ignition coil
starting clicking really fast like something was making it fire (the
key was in the off position). Could this point to an electrical
component or a short somewhere?

If it is the chain, what is a good way to diagnose this without taking
everything apart?

 

Donno why it took you four days of cussing -- its failure mode is
instantly identifiable.

Also don't know why you keep telling the guy with the '72 to replace it --
his symptoms are not consistent with a failed ballast resistor.

When the ballast resistor fails, the car cranks and fires, but stalls as
soon as the key is released from "Start" to "Run". The '72 in question is
cranking and cranking but not firing.

DS

 

Could be the electronic ignition amplifier module on the firewall near
the voltage regulator and ballast resistor. Start by making sure the
5-pin connector is FIRMLY on it and that it has a good firm connection
to the firewall (scrape paint from under the bolts that hold it down.

A compression test will reveal a slipped (all cylinders too low) or
broken (pressures all over the place) chain.

 

On my dad's satellite, I was instructed to do this...

Remove the distributor cap and take a 1/2" breaker are and appropriate sized
socket and turn the crankshaft clockwise. As soon as the crank turns, the
distributor shaft (rotor) should start to turn. If it is slow to respond,
you likely need a new chain and gears.