300M still clunks

So I've been trying to get the clunks out of my 300M for months now so I can
give the car to my in-laws. First under the extended warranty. Now its on
my nickel. Front struts were replaced. So was steering rack and some other
odd pieces. At that point clunks became unpredictably intermittent and no
amount of jostling the car or moving things underneath could duplicate them.
On my nickel the bottom half of the steering column was replaced and the
front struts were replaced again along with the bearing plates they sit on.
Now the clunk is even rarer but still happens. The annoying thing about it
is each time I remind the dealer not to overtighten the screws for the wiper
trim but they always ruin the plastic blocks they screw into. Also each
time the steering wheel is crooked when I pick up the car. I just left them
the car to fix those 2 issues again. I will be giving up on the clunk and
with the purchase of 2 Honda's, that will be it for Chrysler for a while.

 

Sorry to hear that they still can't fix it right. Is there another Chrysler
dealer in the area? Perhaps they might be able to assist.

What kind of Honda are you looking at?

I'm still debating on the 300 C :-(

Ken

--
"Now Phoebe Snow direct can go
from thirty-third to Buffalo.
From Broadway bright the tubes run right
Into the Road of Anthracite"
Erie - Lackawanna

 

We bought a Honda minvan so I could carry my 90 year old father's power
chair in the back on occassion. I looked at the Chrysler, Ford, and Toyota
but the Honda won out. We rented a Chrysler minivan in Florida for a week
and it was ok but the honda handling and ride is much better. We never
liked our Toyota Avalon with all of the rattles so we were biased against
buying another Toyota. The Ford has a very poor reliability record
according to Consumer Reports.

My wife wanted a hybrid without sacrifice so she bought an Accord hybrid
after trying a Prius and the new Civic hybrid. Her second choice would have
been a Civic hybrid. The Prius is a pain to start. I guess they wanted it
to be different. They succeeded. What's wrong with turning a key? The
Accord hybrid doesn't get you tremendous gas mileage but it feels like a V8.

I am thinking about taking the 300M to a family owned front end shop or a
collision shop. Maybe another dealer but I doubt it. Mine is the best I've
found in the area for Chrysler.

The only thing lousy about the Accord Hybrid is they left out all the
electronic gadgets Chrysler spoils you with like auto locking doors, auto
headlights, memory seats. A trunk net and automatic real view mirror are
dealer installed options if you can believe that. The navigation seems cool
but I'll have to read the directions to figure it out.

 

Good luck with the new vehicle.

I had looked at the new Avalon and it has much to offer. It's great on gas
and fast. Plenty of space for people like me who are over 6 feet. Oh, and it
uses regular gas.

Still undecided here :-(

Ken

--
"Now Phoebe Snow direct can go
from thirty-third to Buffalo.
From Broadway bright the tubes run right
Into the Road of Anthracite"
Erie - Lackawanna

 

Also the new Camry comes out in a few months. 6 months early. Another turn
of the screw for Ford and GM. I believe it is based on the new Avalon
platform or visa versa. The hybrid will probably be cheaper than the
Avalon. Of course if you want speed, it is not the car to wait for. The
hybrid will be a 4 cylinder.

 

If Art had been Smart, he would have bought a new Camry when it came out.
Then nobody would be kicking his ass out of the Toyota group!

What kind of a guy gives his in-laws a CLUNKER, ART?!?!?!?!

 

and more money leaves this country esp. michigan

 

Don't worry - it will come back as the asians keep supporting the US
govt's federal debt by buying it up.

Bush and Congress don't raise taxes so that Joe Q American has more
disposable income to buy more stuff from Asia (cars, Walmart stuff,
etc), and the Asians in turn take that money and buy US debt. US
interest rates go up (which makes that debt more expensive over time)
and soon China will be directing US foreign policy. Makes sense to
me.

 

Not yet.

The 300C is still the top contender as while I was having my M serviced, I
sat in both the Daytona (Top Banana) and the 300C. Each vehicle offers so
much room.

I also like the Yukon Denali, yea, I know it's different but both the
Daytona and Denali won't be around next year. Well, the Denali will but it
will be a new model.

Ken

--
"Now Phoebe Snow direct can go
from thirty-third to Buffalo.
From Broadway bright the tubes run right
Into the Road of Anthracite"
Erie - Lackawanna

 

The Accord hybrid doesn't get you tremendous gas mileage but it

The Accord hybrid has to be the STUPIDEST thing I've ever seen. All the
expense and maintenance of a hybrid, without any mileage advantage worth
writing home about. Hell, it'll never even pay for itself. Its the car
for people who want to *say* they have a hybrid but don't care a whit
about whether it actually does any good.

Of all the hybrids on the market, Toyota's design (and the licensed
version in the Ford Escape) is the only one that really makes sense,
because its the only one that breaks the direct connection between the
IC engine and the wheels allowing the IC engine to be highly optimized
to operate at a fixed speed (two different speeds, actually) to gain as
much efficiency out of the engine itself as possible. The Honda designs
are just about useless because the IC engine still has to produce power
everywhere from idle to redline, and that is the biggest single
requirement that forces a whole slew of compromises in the engine's
design and tuning.

 

No doubt about it the Toyota Hybrid design makes a lot more sense.
Notwithstanding, their hybrid SUV is similar to the Honda design and gets a
mediocre mileage improvement like the Accord. The new Civic hybrid gets
darn good mileage and would have been her second choice but she wanted
leather and power seats. Plus being used to a large car like the 300M, a
step down to the Accord size is about all she could take. The Accord hybrid
easily gets 25 mpg in her stop and go crawl to work. Mostly because the
engine turns off when the car is warmed up, in drive, and your foot is on
the brake pedal. The Accord conventional V6 and her 99 300M couldn't get
close to that. Will it every pay off? Hopefully not. Gas would probably
have to hit $5 per gallon. But people spend thousand of bucks on features
in cars everyday. In her case it was the hybrid feature. She could have
crossed the street and bought a more luxurious Lexus or Acura for more money
and not get the feature she wanted. That is free enterprise.

 

Back to the clunk. I brought it to a Dodge dealer. They currently believe
that the steering rack installed in October is bad. They claim that in the
morning before it warms up they will be able to put a hand on it and feel
the clunk there if the rack is the problem.

 

I know this is obvious, but have the sway bar bushings been replaced?

If the answer is yes, please ignore the rambling that follows.

Is the clunk noticible at low speeds when backing out of the driveway and
turining onto your street? Or when you're running down an otherwise smooth
stretch of pavement that has a slight left-right-left roll? Or if it's been
doing it for a while, anytime you hit a bump?

The bushings (almost any mileage) and end links (only on vehicles over 100k
miles) are regular sources of clunking, bushings being the culprit in every
ChryCo I've had within the last 10 years. In fact, I just replaced the
fronts on my wife's '03 T&C at 55k miles and am about to do my '98 GC fronts
again, last time was just 30k miles ago.

These rubber pieces go for under $10 each and take less than an hour to
install with just a few handtools. The T&C's I bought last week at a Dodge
dealer for $11.47 out the door for the pair. I do recall the Jeep parts at
O'Reilly's were a few dollars more but I think they were urethane, and I
won't do that again.

If it's end links, they are about $70 per side and they, too, can be
replaced with simple handtools. The only unique too you might need would be
a joint seperator to pop the ends loose.

The reason I'd suggest this is because it has also been my experience that
the dealerships have difficulty accepting that such a cheap repalcement part
could be the source of a heavy metal clunk. I first encountered this on my
wife's previous van, a '96 T&C, and again with my '99 300M.

I took the '96 to the dealer for diagnosis at around 45k miles and when
faced with their over $500 rack replacement theory, I bought a pair of
bushings (special order in those days) and installed them in under 30
minutes.

When the rear end began to do the same thing about a year later, I threw in
a pair of rear bushings and that clunk, too, went away never to return. My
daughter still drives that van at nearly 140k miles, there still is no front
or rear-end clunk.

My 300M developed a similar clunk around 45k miles. During a trip to the
dealer for replacement of my transmission controller, I had them check the
clunk in the front end. Their diagnosis was end links, $270 installed, and
possibly the steering rack, upwards to $800. I special ordered the bushings
and never looked back. Thirty minutes under the car and the clunk was gone.

I can't imagine the frustration I'd have gone hrough had I listened to
either dealer's recommendation. Of course they didn't care; they were going
to do what the service checklist suggested and take no responsibility for
considering that the procedure might make an assumption that the bushings
were either not typically (shame shame) the culprit or diagnosis would be so
obvious that customers wouldn't get stiffed.

Again, please excuse the rambing if this wasn't what you were looking for.
At least I'm not talking about the relative merits of another make in
reponse to your genuine request fo help.

Bob

 

If it were those bushings, would it explain a clunk that happens only once
or twice in a 20 mile drive despite numerous stop and goes and turns, and
with no regularity whatsoever?

 

You can find the OEM TRW brand ones in aftermarket for under $40. No
separator needed - not a taepred joint - just remove the nuts and they
come right out.

I would have suggested this too, but Art was very insistent that the
problem could not be duplicated - only occurred once in a blue moon or
something like that. Usually the sway bar bushing/end link problem is
easily duplicated.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

A very easy way to prove once and for all if it's either the sway bar
bushings or end links is to completely remove one end link. If the
noise doesn't recur with that off, then the problem is the sway bar
bushings and/or end links. If the noise still recurs (how ever often
you're experiencing it) with the end link removed, then the problem is
elsewhere. Driving without the end link installed just means the sway
bar will not be doing anything - no risk of damage or a safety concern
driving with the end link removed.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

The Dodge dealer called me last night. They drove the car all around and it
happened twice on them but they cannot duplicate it and they wanted to know
if I could come up with any circumstances under which it was more likely to
occur. Unfortunately the answer is no. I am waiting to hear from them
today. I'll let you guys know. I will probably have them change the sway
bar bushings and end links no matter what.

 

Please let us know what ultimately resolves the problem. Thanks in advance.

 

So far the Dodge dealer cannot figure it out. They had the car on the lift
first thing in the morning with someone turning the wheel and someone
checking around underneath with an emphasis on the rack. They could not get
it to clunk. They will try again tomorrow after it sits overnight. The
Dodge dealer, just like the Chrysler dealer is absolutely sure that the sway
bar bushings and everything else is tight. My plan is if they give up is to
just tell them to go ahead and change those sway bar bushings in any case.

 

Art,

I'm not at all surprised. The bushings cannot, I repeat, cannot be
diagnosed by looking at them on a rack.

The rubber simply hardens and the clunk you hear is the bar bouncing against
hard rubber.

New bushings are softer and stay in contact with the bar in all but the most
violent of bumps.

If the bushings have been on the car for more than 3 years and/or in a
variety of climactic conditions, they are probably hard to the point that
they are the source of the noise.

Once they replace them and the noise goes away, how do you plan on recouping
your repair and inconvenience costs to this point?

Bob