300M exhaust system question (needs new part)

Over the past few months my '00 300M has developed a bit of an exhaust
bark.

I had an oil change today (at a Midas dealership, first time ever that
I've not had it done at a Chrysler dealer) and I asked them to look at
the exhaust and tell me what / where the problem is. Went to look
under the car while it was hoisted (have never been under the car like
that before). It looked to be in great condition underneath
(rust-wise). Break lines are rusting in some places - I take it that
brake and fuel lines are steel (not stainless steel?).

Anyways, I've got a printed diagram showing the exhaust system of a
300M (Activant Solutions Inc.)

I believe the system looks like this:

- Left/Right cat converters
- left/right front pipes (2 pieces each)
- resonator (?) 2-inputs, 1-output ($135, $90 labor)
- single center extension pipe ($130, $90 labor)
- muffler ($133, $90 labor)
- short pipe ($36)
- resonator ($174, $90 labor)

Not sure if I've identified the resonator(s) and muffler correctly.

All pipes must be stainless steel (they would have rusted out in 3 or
4 years if they weren't).

Seems that all the components are welded together - not clamped (I
like that). In other words, the pipes are welded to the resonators,
muffler.

So the bark I'm hearing is because the seam running the length of both
sides of the first "resonator" has opened up.

The resonator at the back end of the system has about 1/2 dozen small
holes (1/8" diam or smaller) on it's underside.

Naturally the Midas guy wants to replace everything from the first
resonator all the way to the back end (labor/parts/tax = $905). It's
not really a money thing, but I'm really only focused on replacing the
failing (failed) resonator and keeping the rest of the system intact.

I'm thinking that not only are the pipes made of stainless steel, but
the resonators and muffler must be as well. I don't think any pipes
really need replacing - and I wouldn't trust the quality of the pipe
material that Midas might use anyways (do they use stainless - or are
do these shops use aluminized pipes?).

What's the consensus out there regarding exhaust system servicing on
these 2'nd gen LH cars?

Is the dealer the best place to have this service work done if I'm
concerned about the longevity (craftsmanship, materials) of the
replacement parts, and/or the method of replacement (welding vs
clamping) ??

 

MM - I would post your questions to the 300M Enthusiast Club forums
(http://300mclub.org/forums/index.php). Those guys are constantly
futzing with the exhaust system - not to fix problems per se, but
deleting certain components or replacing certain components with certain
aftermarket parts to get just the right tone without it being annoying,
etc. Point being that they intimately know the system and how it is put
together and what can be replaced with what, etc. etc.

Me personally - based on two not so good experiences with Midas when I
did try them in my younger days - and I doubt it's gotten any better -
would not trust them to work on my car or advise me on anything. They
are known for upselling, and while you may have a $50 or $100 problem,
you don't want it to become a $600 one.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

If I recall, the exhaust is part of the emissions system. Should be covered
under warranty for 100,000 miles. Give the dealer a call and ask. Of
course, you could drop a wad and customize........

Hope this helps!

PoD

 

The catalytic converter(s) would be, the rest of the exhaust
isn't.

 

Well, given that this is a Canadian car, I believe that the warrany
period and/or milage was different in Canada vs US during that
time-frame (1999-2000).

For example, I *think* the engine and drivetrain warranty in Canada
was 3 years or 60k km, vs 5 years and 100k miles in the US - although
I've also seen 3 years and 36k miles in the US so who knows. I think
the 2001 Dodge Ram I bought in early 2001 had significantly longer
warranty coverage than the 300M did.

This page appears to contain US information:

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2002-chrysler-300m-3.htm

"The Exhaust Emission Warranty covers corrosion-related parts
for 2 years/24,000 miles, plus 8 years/80,000 miles on the
catalytic converter and any on-board diagnostic device. "

I guess that perhaps the exhaust system is not part of the drive or
power-train?

Most likely, given that I bought the car new in Nov 1999, that not
even the cat's are still under warranty. All other exhaust system
parts seem to have a much shorter warranty coverage period.

 

Glenn, what type of stainless steel was used for the exhaust pipes for
the 300M?

Also, do you know if the muffler and/or resonators were made of
stainless steel?

My past experience with putting stainless steel pipes on my '65 Dodge
and '73 Satellite was that the pipes lasted forever, but the mufflers
didn't. So I'd find it hard to believe that the muffler and
resonators on my 8-rear-old 300M were made from ordinary steel.

 

Converters are 8/80

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler tech

 

You can go to this site and download the warranty info that comes with the
vehicle.Im pretty sure Canada and US fall under the same Federal Emission
warranty of 8/80. California is still 7/70 Federal Emission

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

I believe they are made of Stainless Steel from the Cat back to the muffler.
The muffler may have a steel wrap because that seems to be the only part on
the system that fails.

My opinion

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

take it to a mom and pop shop and get just the part you need fixed and not
waste money or existing good parts by getting all new when you don't need
it! api products offers each piece of you exhaust system and it can be
welded in easily
midas used to be a muffle shop but now they try and do it all and forgot
were they came from

 

I re-posted my question to the exhaust sub-group on the 300mclub.org
website, and I posted another version of the same question to the main
message group.

I wasn't too impressed by the quality of the 3 responses to the
posting on the exhaust sub-group - their answer was basically to
remove the resonator and replace it with a Y pipe - not something I
want to do if it makes the car louder than factory-original state.

Here is basically what I posted to the general forum (if anyone wants
to answer or post their own opinion or experience, please do):

---------------------

The side seams on the resonator of my '00 300M have opened up and now
my 300m is starting to sound like a truck.

This resonator is the component where the 2 pipes from the cat
convertors merge and then run into a singe long pipe to the muffler
(and then from the muffler to the last component which is either
another muffler or another resonator).

Chrysler only seems to sell this resonator as an assembly that
includes the long pipe and the attached muffler. I'm in Canada - where
the dealers are charging $513 for that combined unit, while dealers in
the USA (specifically, Southfield and Port Huron MI) are charging $380
for the same part (why such a large difference given the parity
between CAD and USD?)

Does anyone sell a suitable aftermarket replacement for (only) the
resonator? One that is made from stainless steel (like the factory
unit) ??

 

I disagree with you characterizations of the responses you got.

The first part of your post on the exhaust forum was pretty much a
narrative on your part. Here's the tail end of your post on the exhaust
forum:

"...I'm thinking that not only are the pipes made of stainless steel,
but the resonators and muffler must be as well. I don't think any pipes
really need replacing - and I wouldn't trust the quality of the pipe
material that Midas might use anyways (do they use stainless - or are do
these shops use aluminized pipes?).

"What's the consensus out there regarding exhaust system servicing on
these 2'nd gen LH cars?

"Is the dealer the best place to have this service work done if I'm
concerned about the longevity (craftsmanship, materials) of the
replacement parts, and/or the method of replacement (welding vs
clamping) ??"

Here's one of the 3 responses you got - every question you asked was
specifically answered.

"I *think* the whole setup is stainless and midas or whomever usually
has to order stainless as typically they only have the aluminized
steel/steel on hand.

"If you only want to replace the failing part I say have the dealer do
it or whomever there isn't a need to replace the entire setup on the car
if it's okay. Granted a new problem could develop but it would likely
only be another component like a bit of rusting pipe etc, the whole
setup won't fall apart at once.

"$900 is probably accurate for what a midas shop would charge
ordering/bending stainless pipe but it's just too much money to put the
stock system back.

"If I were you I'd either let it slide/remove it to see if you like the
way it is w/o it, have only that part replaced, or do a custom duel
setup for the entire exhaust."

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Here was essentially my root question:

I now know that all of the OEM components are stainless steel. The
definitive answer to that question did not even come from the 300m
club website.

I was looking for an "ordinary" person to post their informed,
researched experience on what they did when their "ordinary" 300m
needed "ordinary" exhaust service work. I was not looking to
replicate what the average 20-year-old would do to their ricer-racer.

I now know that

(a) Chrysler exhaust replacement parts are %35 more expensive in
Canada vs USA

(b) Chrysler does not sell the replacement resonator separately

(c) I won't find a listed cross-replacement stainless-steel
version from an aftermarket supplier

(d) I will now have to go measure the original resonator and
determine which Magnaflow (or equivalent) generic oval
stainless steel muffler most closely matches the original.

(e) If I post the information I learn from (d) on the 300m club
website, I may very well be the first person to have researched
and posted such information, which I would not have expected to
be.

 

You actually gave your second post less than 3 hours for replies? I
think your expectations are a little unreasonable. I see that you are
actually engaging in a dialogue there where you are getting some
information. At least now you know that you don't have to restrict your
search for used parts to 300M's only.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Of course what Mopar Man is calling the first "resonator" is (I'm pretty
sure from the description) the main catalyst.

I wouldn't accept a Midas exhaust system if they gave it to me wrapped
in a brand new Challenger SRT-8. I'd find a competent locally owned shop
that can do mandrel bending of either aluminized or stainless pipes, and
put them to work on it. Use name brand cats and muffler(s), factory
hangers, etc. and you'll have a good-as-new system

 

Wrong.

The failed component of my exhaust system is the unit where the 2
front pipes are combined and then exit via a single pipe. The two
cat's are in front of this unit. This unit is mostly referred to as a
resonator, but otherwise looks like a full-sized traditional muffler.

The Midas exhaust system is basically a set of aluminized pipes and
Walker components. I would not replace my 75% functional OEM system
with a 100% Midas system - not because it's Midas but because it's not
stainless steel.

I already know of such a place, but my first task is to obtain a
satisfactory stainless-steel replacement for my failed resonator.

I get the feeling that most people replace the failed OEM
stainless-steel exhaust components of their LH-body cars with
"Midas-grade" aluminzed / steel versions.

If more people knew the difference (or cared, or had the $$$) I'm sure
Midas would offer stainless-steel replacement parts. As it is, not
even anyone on the 300M Club webforum can identify a correct stainless
steel aftermarket part.