2007 300C w/Goodyear tires--Noisy

Car came with Goodyear Assurance tires. After around 16K miles, they
developed a whirring, roaring sound that increase in pitch with speed,
almost as if they were cupped. Too new for bad shocks, I thought. I
rotate tires every 6000 miles religiously.

Had an alignment, and dealer said tires were slightly "feathered".
Asked him what might cause that, and he said alignment. I would think
with regular rotation that shouldn't be a big problem.

Anyone have similar complaint/experience? What can I do, short of
replacing the darn things?

 

Sounds like a repeat of the crappy tire problem that came with the 1999
300M. Tires were crap after 12k miles. Goodyear replaced them.
Replacements were crap after 10k miles. I replaced them with Michelins.
Problem solved.

 

I replaced the Goodyear (Eagles?) on my 300m with Dunlop SP5000's, and
when they wore out I went with Yokohama Advan S4. The S4 is a very
quiet tire. It's billed as an "ultra high performace all season"
tire, but I put snows on in the winter.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=ADVAN+S.4.

 

sounds as if you arent sure that it is the tires causing the noise. Have
you rotated them to see if the noise changes? could you be hearing a wheel
bearing problem?

Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech

 

Consistent with what others are saying in their replies to you, once a
problem like this develops with a given set of tires, it's pretty much
impossible to correct that set of tires. Best thing to do is get an
alignment now simultaneous with replacing the tires to something not
considered "high performance". So-called high performance tires are a
very poor value in my opinion (and yes - it is my opinion which anyone
is free to disagree with). You pay 2 to 3 times more for a tire that
will have 1/2 the tread life of a non-high performance tire, and will
likely develop noise problems like this 1/2 way thru that period, and
the tire manufacturer will not adjust it no matter what (because they
are high performance and that makes it easy for the manufacturer to
pretend that you are to blame by abuse, neglect, improper alignment, or
anything else they can think of to shift the blame to you, and you have
no effective recourse). As I said: Very poor value compared to a nice
touring tire IMO.

So yourself a favor and *always* get 'before' and 'after' printouts with
your alignments. You will prevent a lot of headscratching and maximize
your chances of avoiding this kind of problem. In this particular case,
when you do get the new tires and alignment, getting 'before' and
'after' printouts will sove the mystery - at least for you own
curiousity - of whether your alignment was out and cause the present
problem *OR* that your alingment was in fact fine and the problem is
poorly designed tires. This will make you smarter for future tire
selections and help you avoid b.s. artists in the tire market.

IMO...

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Thanks for the reply.

Yes--you'll note in my original post that I DO rotate every 6,000 miles.
The noise just cropped up recently, around 16K miles, after a 1,600
mile trip across country. Rotation right after that did not cure the
noise. And, I am certain that the tires are the cause of the noise;
two dealers have confirmed that I do NOT have a wheel bearing problem,
and one dealer said that the "feathering" would cause the tires to be
noisy. He said that driving them would eventually lessen the
noise--that's NOT my experience with tires that have developed cupping
or feathering over the years, and with many cars.

It used to be that one could have tires "trued"--a process of trimming a
small amount of rubber from the tread to eliminate the
cupping/feathering; but, no one does that any more.

 

Hmmm. Link leads to page that says "We were unable to find a match for
the Yokohama tire you selected." Perusing all Yokohama tires on
Tirerack, I couldn't find one in 225/60/18, the original equip. size on
my 300C. Did you use the optional size?

 

OOPS! Make that "perusing all Yokohama Advan S4....."

 

As I said in my other post - kind of an inherent property of so-called
hi-performance tires - due to very little siping and large tread blocks
that create the cupping. Again - low tread life, almost guaranteed
noise halfway thru the otherwise usable low tread life, high initial
cost, and absolutely no help from the manufacturer when such problems
develop because this kind of problem is accepted in the industry. So why
buy them?

Look into Cooper touring tire CS-4. Super quiet, and very good tread
life. Approx. $85 each. A bargain in my book. And have your local
tire dealer order them in. By the time you pay shipping and extra
installation costs (and no one to turn to if problems develop) if
ordering from Tire Rack, the seemingly good price for mail order tires
doesn't look so hot - better off getting from your local tire dealer who
you also get your alignments from (which also reduces finger-pointing if
problems develop).

Yep - by the time you pay the labor of the truing process and subtract
out the cost of the reduced life of the tires from removing tread depth,
you are money ahead by just starting with a new set of tires - *plus*
there's a chance that the problem is still there even after the truing.
That's why no one does truing anymore.

It seems to me that you knew the answers to your questions before you
even posted.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Nope, just gut feelings. Since I don't live in "the big city", I was
hoping I could pick the brains of folks who know more than I, maybe
those who have been exposed to more advanced technology than that
available in RURAL central MO!

My selling dealer is in Columbia, and his techs "didn't hear any noise";
of course, they don't hear it driving only 3 or 4 miles. They don't
live with the car. Not like driving 4K miles across country, and
putting 20K miles on in a year.

You mentioned Cooper; I have a local dealer who can get Coopers for me.
BUT, I had two sets of Cobra's on a 2001 Nissan Altima, BOTH of which
developed cupping after some 20K miles, even with alignments, rotation,
AND new rear struts. Twice burned, not again.

 

This may be a stupid thing to do, but if you reverse rotation on 'em,
they'll have to un-feather. They'd have no choice whatsoever. I did that on
1 tire last year, but I wouldn't much want to do it on all 4. I'm old, so I
don't like running radials backward.

 

Re-read what I said about so-called high performance tires. I bet the
Coopers you had noise problems with were so-called high performance
tires (large tread blocks/very little siping). The CS4 is not of that type.

If you refused to do business with any manufacturer who makes some lines
of tires that get noisy (so-called high performance tires), you would
have no one to buy tires from. Don't cut off your nose to spite your
face (I know - I do the same thing - I swear I'll never buy another
Dunlop tire because I had serious noise problems with one of their
so-called high performance tires and they refused to make good on them
even though nothing I did or didn't do caused the problem).

IOW - Don't rule out a particular manufacturer over *this* problem.
Rule out so-called high performance tires from *any* manufacturer that
you pay 2 to 3 times as much for and get 1/4 to 1/2 the service life out
of and instead get a good touring tire from an otherwise good
manufacturer. You'll be money way ahead.

IMO...

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

I don't drive the Tonka Toy (aka 300c).

I have a 300m. The more classy-looking 300.

My 300m has 17" wheels. Your Fisher Price 300c has 18" wheels. The
large wheels are one of the reasons for the tire noise (tire-slap).

 

I don't think Tire Rack carries Cooper.

 

Does this tire conform to your definition (large tread blocks, very
little siping) ?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=ADVAN+S.4.

 

Er, uh...they look alike, except for the emblem on the trunk, and the
chrome-backed mirrors on the C (toy?!?!). Oh, well; everyone to their
own perversion!

 

Good point, Joe, and it makes sense.

I asked my dealer about front-to-back rotation vs. X-type rotation,
remembering that I, too, had always been told radials should NOT be run
backwards from their previous mode. His response was that was true with
radials many years ago. But, with new belting methods, it doesn't
matter any more.

So, I may try your suggestion of reversing their rotation. Since I just
had them rotated (dealer did front-to-back) all I need to do is exchange
sides.

 

I DO understand, and will make that part of my decision process when
choosing the next set of tires.

The Coopers I had were the Cobra, but without raised white lettering.
That was some year and a half ago. Looks like they have changed the Cobra.

Will do!

 

I know you're in troubleshooting mode right now, but when you are past
this problem and do get back to normal tire maintenance, the right way
to rotate is to cross the ones that go from back to front, bring the
fronts straight back (or vice-versa). By only crossing one pair at a
time (and not crossing the other pair), that puts each tire at every
position over their life and maximizes the evening out of irregular wear
and maximizes the effective tread life. The method I described is
called "cross to front". Any good tire shop should know what you mean
if you throw that phrase at them. If they give you a dumb look, either
find another shop, or explain it to them. The important thing is that
you use the same method consistently for a given set of tires. If you
mix the mehtods (cross to front and cross to rear), then it messes up
the optimization. That's why you tell them the method and not assume
which they will use (which also lets them know not to cross both pairs
and not to *not* cross them.

There are what are called dierctional tires that cannot be crossed. But
that has to do with directional tread pattern (for water shedding) - not
tire construction so much. But those tires are clearly marked with an
arrow and are not so common in ordinary everyday tires like you and I buy.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

You need glasses - or lay off the coke.