2005 Town and Country Steering Groan

It would not be the first time that someone has overlooked something
incredibly basic on troubleshooting a problem.

The poster said it only groans on slow speed turns when the engine
is idling or a bit above idling. Never when the engine is higher RPM,
or turning a smaller amount. Stop acting like a parts changer blindly
following the factory recipies that you already know don't work, and
start acting like a real diagnostician for a minute or two and use your
head. Think about the conditions that are present in the first case and
not present in the second case.

Ted

 

Yes, but does this groaning either damage the steering or cause it to not
work? If neither, then the problem is already going to be at the bottom of
500 other possible design defects that Chrysler already knows about, and
that
are more important because they do cause actual malfunctions. It might be
that for example the minimum hydraulic pressure needed to assist the
steering is, say, 80psi, and the assembly will groan if the hydraulic
pressure is between 80-180psi and a resistance of 200 ft lbs is placed on
the steering assist gears by the tires, and will not groan if the pressure
is
above 180psi with the same resistance. On investigation Chrysler discovered
that the existing pully assembly will cause the pump to generate a pressure
of
120psi at minimum engine idle, with 200 ft lbs of tire resistance, and
that's
good enough for them.

I don't know how you troubleshoot out-of-box problems but where I come
from, when all standard attempts at fixing the problem have failed, if you
still want to fix the problem then you start making hypothesises of what
the cause is, and testing them out. When you do this you must assume
that there are no restrictions on your hypothesis - that the most rediculous
sounding hypothesis is possibly valid until proven wrong through real life
testing - not armchair speculation. So far using this I've never found a
problem that
remained unsolvable and I've found solutions for a great many problems
that everyone else who worked on them wrote off as unsolvable.. (I have
found plenty where the solution required
a human being trained to do something the correct way rather than the
wrong way, and due to political factors, the human could not be retrained
and
so even though a solution to the problem was discovered, the solution was
not put into effect and so the problem remained - but that is a different
issue)

The obvious test would be to fabricate a smaller pully for the pump and see
if
it makes any difference. Not sit around arguing why it may or may not
work without the bother of even testing it. Your starting to sound like an
engineer!

Ted

 

funny thing glenn that pump fixed his van
he told me he had van to dealer 3 times and they could not fix it
it's time you look for that tool and see how many more power steering issue's
you will correct instead of hiding behind tsb's and star center crap because you
are not taking care of the customer

 

Your fix was merely just removing the old fluid and putting new fluid in.
The cust bought a P/S pump that you sold him for no reason at all

 

then why did the dealer do 2 flushes with no results! because not all things can
be fixed from a flush or bought in a can

 

ummm. if that were the case why not just improve the pressure relief valve
in the pump? I would think a heavier spring would be cheaper then adding a
pulley. It has nothing to do with pressure from the pump.

Glenn

 

OK, next time you have a vehicle come in with a worn out oil pump that
is not making enough oil pressure, instead of replacing it with a new pump,
why don't you just replace the pressure relief spring in the worn pump?
According
to your logic this ought to make the worn oil pump produce a higher
pressure. Let's see how long the mains last then?

Stop acting like a parts changer and use your head - a moments thought and
you would have realized that putting a stronger spring on the pressure
relief
valve on a weak oil pump isn't going to increase pressure.

The reports are that groaning doesen't happen at higher engine speed,
please,
make a hypothesis that answers the question of why groaning happens at
low engine speed but not at high engine speed, and that doesen't involve
pressure changes in the fluid system.

Ted

 

you said putting a bigger pulley on the system may do it!!!So how will a
bigger or smaller pulley help out a worn pump too??? I said if that were
the case why wouldnt they just install a heavier spring... dont change
things around again.

Glenn

 

OK, so is the consusnes that no body know's how to fix this? Is it
parts replacement, or is a flush. Has anything really worked? Its
getting worse especially in the mornings, in the cold. That's when it
happens the worst. and its only when turning to the right.

 

If you do not have a leak causing this to happen and the fluid if full the
first thing to do is have the fluid flushed (this is for the grind noise,).
If the groan/shudder/moan at slow speed parking lot maneuvers is present
Chrysler said to have the power steering cooler replaced with the latest
updated part. If the shudder is still present, replace the rack.

Glenn

 

Glenn,
I've made an appt with a different dealer for the 15th. I have
no leak and the fluid is full. I will see what they come up witih at
that appt and let you know. Thanks for all your help. I hope they can
fix it.

 

Ok, let me know

 

Theres an echo in here

 

Sorry, I am the echo. Still figuring out how to post here.

I also have a 3.8 2005 Town and Country. I have the exact same
problem. It started at 10 months and about 9,000 miles. Groaning in the
steering when backing out of driveway and turning to go up the street.
Also noticible when slow turning, especially making u-turns. Developed
external leak which resolved itself. (Was told by dealer it was a
little transmission leak and they tightened something to stop it.) I am
no mechanic, but it seemed odd to see transmission fluid on the ground
near the inside of the right front tire.

At first sound only occured when turning right, then occasionally on
left turns. They finally diagnosed an internal leak in the rack and
pinion, but told me parts would not be available for several weeks. The
external leak returned and I became afraid to drive it for fear of
getting stuck somewhere, or possible failure

Dealer finally replaced rack and pinion at 25,000 miles . . .three
weeks ago. When I rescued it from the dealership, it immediately made
the same noise, except only during left turns. They said I needed to
drive it for 200 miles to get the air out of the system. 1,000 miles
later, it was still groaning. I took it back. They couldn't diagnose,
so they took it to a local alignment shop for diagnosis then brought
the car back to the dealership to supposedly replace the power steering
pump. That was last week. No one from the dealership returns my calls.

I figure I may have to get an attorney to help me convince them to buy
it back at this point. Frustration is not a strong enough word.

 

Sorry, I am the echo. Still figuring out how to post here.

I also have a 3.8 2005 Town and Country. I have the exact same
problem. It started at 10 months and about 9,000 miles. Groaning in the
steering when backing out of driveway and turning to go up the street.
Also noticible when slow turning, especially making u-turns. Developed
external leak which resolved itself. (Was told by dealer it was a
little transmission leak and they tightened something to stop it.) I am
no mechanic, but it seemed odd to see transmission fluid on the ground
near the inside of the right front tire.

At first sound only occured when turning right, then occasionally on
left turns. They finally diagnosed an internal leak in the rack and
pinion, but told me parts would not be available for several weeks. The
external leak returned and I became afraid to drive it for fear of
getting stuck somewhere, or possible failure

Dealer finally replaced rack and pinion at 25,000 miles . . .three
weeks ago. When I rescued it from the dealership, it immediately made
the same noise, except only during left turns. They said I needed to
drive it for 200 miles to get the air out of the system. 1,000 miles
later, it was still groaning. I took it back. They couldn't diagnose,
so they took it to a local alignment shop for diagnosis then brought
the car back to the dealership to supposedly replace the power steering
pump. That was last week. No one from the dealership returns my calls.

I figure I may have to get an attorney to help me convince them to buy
it back at this point. Frustration is not a strong enough word.