2001 2.7 Intrepid...a deal?

I've noted the Chrysler/Daimler/Toyota/VW oil sludging imbroglio since
it started showing up in the press, and have noted that it further
depressed prices on 2.7-equipped LH cars to the point to where many
seem like pretty good deals for someone with some mechanical smarts.
Case in point: An elderly lady down the street owns an Intrepid with
the 2.7 with only 30K miles, and her kids got ahold of the "sludge"
story and are pestering her to dump it ASAP. She told me this
morning, "My son says the engine is going to fall out of it soon."
Thus, she said she wants to see what a dealer will offer her on
trade-in, and I'm sure it won't be much.

This car is almost showroom, in and out, and has been dealer serviced
since new (NOT that this is necessarily a good thing!) and she has had
biannual oil changes since she bought the car in summer of '01. The
door sticker says it's been using Pennzoil 10W-30, probably since the
first dealer service, and there's a shiny Mopar oil filter on the
engine.

I offered to beat the dealer's trade-in and pay cash, and she said
she'd consider the offer. I'm looking to retire the old "grocery
getter" Honda early next year, and I want to park the M-body in the
garage for road trips only to keep the mileage low.

Question: With synthetic and reasonable change intervals, I don't
fear the sludge issue at all, but is there anything that I should be
aware of other than that, other than TCM reflashing to eliminate the
"bump" shift? She claims the car gets 20-21 around town. I followed
Putney's sage advice about inspecting the PCV hose, and I found it to
be reasonably clean. Fingering the inside of it showed basically
amber oil with a slight amount of carbonization. It does have the
heat exchanger mod on it, as well...about as strange an idea as I've
seen in awhile, but it appears to do the job.

I see these cars for sale all the time for less than low book, with
very few going for high book anywhere. Aside from the usual
LH-related problems that have been covered in here elsewhere, any
caveats about this engine in particular? I found the power to be more
than adequate for me and there were no outstanding codes.

 

well, you'd have to give the group the BUYING PRICE before we can
determine if it's a deal or not. Which makes us wonder, why you hid
the price offered.

besides, if you are so PRO-JAPANESE about cars, why are you now looking
to buy a BIG THREE- CHRYSLER product ?

Is this another BS story like you 1955 Lancer thread ?

most likely...because you're too ANTI-AMERICAN to buy a Chrysler.

but I hope you do buy it- because you'll have nothing but problems with
it- you're too stupid to just buy a GM already.

 

x-no-archive: yes

Huh? Too "anti american" to buy a used car made in Canada by a German
company? Please troll elsewhere, Charles / epix.net.

 

My wife's Sebring 2.7L 2001 at 35Kkms is clean as a whistle; well as
much as one can see in the fill access. No evidence of carbon at all. It
does get about 25% highway driving.
We were using Chryslers oil, but have just switched to Castrol.
Personally I can't see why one would sell (dump) a car with this engine
if the mileage is so low. There will be lots of life left and even if
the engine fails the body is worth something. IMO better to run it into
the ground.
We are keeping our Sebring. <

What's that. Our Sebring shifts very smoothly, except for the shift
in/out of park; a big bump!

That about right. We get similar.

 

Thanks for you input. I looked into this car's filler and see now
carbonization or gooey sludge anywhere, as this car has had oil
changes about every 3-5K miles, at 6 mos.

She hasn't decided on a new car yet, but I'm going to offer her above
whatever any dealer will give her...which can't be very much!

 

DC Dealer offered her $4900 trade on a new Stratus (which she doesn't
really need), so I offered $5000 cash. See below. Deal, or no deal?

 

If she trades it in at the dealer, then the price usually comes off the top
of the negotiated price for the vehicle. The net result here is to reduce
the sales tax by the amount of the trade-in. In most states, this would be
more than $100, so I would say "no deal" to your generous offer.

Bob

 

The closer will probably try to dissuade her, but I note that 2.7L DC
products are a dime a dozen out here, due to the "sludge horror"
reputation. We'll see what she does, but if my offer's more than the
sales tax, she may go for it. It's a very clean car that shows no
signs of sludging, at least on the rocker arms or in the PCV hose, and
would fit my needs just fine for a daily driver. High book in this
area on these is around $6100, but a quick survey shows them all
selling retail for what I'm offering. I note some late VW Jettas are
also selling for just over low book everywhere except VW dealerships,
for the same reason. I did check one of those out, and a peek inside
the valve cover did indeed shows a nasty amount of sludge.

 

That is one of the dealers "tricks". They may offer her 5K trade in
toward a new car which looks great to the person trading in the car
but in reality if she had no trade at all she could have gotten the
price of the new car down another couple of thousand.... So really
she is only getting 2 or 3k for the old car at most, it just looks
good on paper.

You could probably find the same car on a dealer lot (maybe event the
exact same car) for less money than the dealer is offering her for it.
I would keep looking if it were me unless you just really want that
particular car.

Steve B.

 

Oh yeah, I know all about "fluffing the trade." They take it in for
$5K on paper, pad the new car $2K to cover the diff between their
trade and what they want the trade for and they go for it every time.

Let's say they do offer her $5K on the trade, which would be a fair
midrange on this car for retail. They throw on $2 or 3K onto the
invoice before she even knows what's happening, they get the trade for
$2 or 3K, put it on the lot for $500 over high book and then can
comfortably "haggle" down below high book and still make a fat profit
on the back end of the trade.

My only thing here is that dealers are very wary of 2.7L cars and
generally don't want them on trade due to their reputation, deserved
or not. This car is near showroom and shows no signs of oil sludging,
and I thought since I know the history of the car, it'd be worth it to
offer her a little more than the dealer would. I really don't want to
try to "program" her (she IS a neighbor!) but, I do like the car and
know that the "sludging" problem wouldn't be a problem with my kind of
maintenance.

We'll just see what they do offer her on trade to try to pad the new
car price and go from there.

 

That is true here as well with regard to the tax being on the
difference, however it is well known that buying without a trade results
in a significantly lower price on the new vehicle.
Well more than a $100 saving.
Trades the dealers don't want go to auction clearance sales here.

 

With VWs it's much more than sludge; VWs have been a terrible
maintenance problem. Even VW implies to that by mentioning their "much
improved" build quality recently.

 

That's always been the case. When I worked at a dealership, people
would bring in their beaters and the closer would write the trade up
to the moon, showing how much the buyer would save on sales tax due to
their generous trade allowance. The buyer would hopefully be
bedazzled by this, not seeing that the selling price of the car which
he'd committed to has mysteriously jumped 2Gs or more in the process.
It's the oldest trick in the book.

What was remarkable back then was that two and three year old Datsun
1200s were coming in on trades for below low book, none of which were
very cosmetically nice looking cars, getting a quickie wash and detail
job, and going right on the front line of the used lot and were moving
on the back end the next week! People wanted that 40 MPG, never mind
the smelly interior plastic, the shitty seating and the already
oxidized paint. At that time, the only thing going to auction were
trashed or gas guzzler US made cars...pure beaters. Salesmen could
pick up these beaters for a couple of hundred if the wholesaler didn't
show up that day. That's how I wound up with a very dirty but
otherwise very straight '62 Olds Starfire with 68K miles for $200 one
time. The sales manager just lumped it in with the rest of the
beaters, but I saw basically a very straight car that had lived out in
cowboy country a little too long. A month's worth of work and it was
pristine. Car salesman, unless it's a very good house, usually know
nothing about cars, and couldn't care less. The name of the game is
getting your bucks.

What I learned working at a dealership has stayed with me all these
years: NEVER bring in a trade, ALWAYS have cash and be prepared to
WALK if you don't get what you want. It just doesn't pay to get
"committed" to buying any car...be prepared to either take it or leave
it. If you play poker right, and floor traffic is light and sales
slow, they'll go for the skinny every time. Why? That closer needs
to eat (and he might even cut out the "up" salesman in a "turnover"
house altogether...it happens), and he'd rather take a skinny deal
over NO deal any day. When he finally figures out that you've got
cash, and some of it's supposed to be his, and you're getting into
your other car, he'll come running to the curb.

 

Exactly. They've shown their lack of real car knowledge all to often to
me. The bull S I've heard would fertilize all the farms in NA.

Total agreement here.
After many car buying experiences I've come up with this approach which
works for me.
1) Research the cars and determine exactly what you want. Don't value
extra options you don't want.
Don't take options you don't want.
For example I never want leather seats again. I also want all weather
tires of reasonable profile, not high performance summer tires.
This eliminates some high priced cars.
2) Research local car prices to determine the minimum prices being
asked for your car. Also research prices on the Internet.
3) Go to all your desirable dealers, discuss your car requirements with
them. If you get a hard BS time, eliminate those dealers.
4) Finally go to the dealer you prefer, tell them what you want to buy
and say: "there will be no haggling and there will be one price quoted
by you and one by them, they can chose who goes first".
They usually ask me to go first. This approach has always worked and I
know I've always obtained a very good deal.

If I have a trade I don't want to sell myself I may ask them for their
offer after we agree on the new car price, although I often sell it
myself.

 

DeserTBoB wrote:

So after your agreeing that the dealer would be scamming her out of a
grand or two by fluffing on the trade, out of the goodness of your
heart, because she is a neighbor, you're going to do her a favor by
taking that value out of it rather than point out the fluffing scam and
you are offering her $1 more than the dealer claims to be offering her
on trade. I hope she some how reads this to understand the true nature
of your "altruism". What a jerk.

If you're going to take advantage of her, then go ahead, but don't couch
it like you are doing her a favor because she is a neighbor. Admit at
least to youreslf that you're part of the scam, just without the
dealer's knowledge, and that you're not giving her "special treatment"
because she is a neighbor..

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Hi...

I'm lucky enough to have about the best neighbors in the world; after
25+ years much more like family than neighbors

I intend keeping it that way by being neither a seller nor a buyer

Respectfully suggest that the OP perhaps gently hint that she might
do better selling it privately (to someone else); then change the
subject to the weather, or the grandkids, or fishing, or ...

Take care.

Ken

 

Probably sage advice.

I snipped Putney's outlashing. Those rightards are getting a bit
testy now that their political heroes are swirling down the toilet of
ignomy and their "enemy" party is taking over in a scant three weeks!

First, I don't think she can sell the car privately for more than I
can offer her in cash. 2.7L DC products are drugs on the market,
period. I just opened yesterday's LA Times, and there was a slough of
'00 2.7 Intrepids for low book and below, NONE at high book. My
offer's for midrange, NOT high book, which is around $6.1K on this
particular car.

All these "free marketeers" espouse all this "market forces" crap
until someone they don't like follows their advice. What hypocrites.
If I were being truly altruistic, I'd try to tell her that her son's
full of beans and if she just changes the oil regularly, the car will
be just fine. However, I'm not about to tell her her son's a
Putney...er, jerk...because you just don't do that. If she's going to
dump the car, she's going to dump the car, period. One cannot meddle
too deeply in other peoples' families' dynamics.

It's like when I sell this house. Realtor crooks have a new scam in
which they bring in unqualified, shady buyers from "de ghetto" and
then demand that, instead of me dropping the price of the house
$10-20K to close the deal, that I keep the price high and just pay the
unqualified buyer's closing costs. It's the same basic scam as
"fluffing the trade," and also "fluffs" the realtor's commission (as
well as boosts sales taxes.) That isn't going to happen here, but
they talked my father-in-law across the street into it, and ripped him
off for $12.5K. Hey, I tried to warn him, but you just don't tell
dumb people they're being dumb sometimes.

I offered her $5K for the car this morning. She can take it or leave
it. However, I got to thinking that if indeed she trades it in at the
Chrysler dealership, the car will probably wind up on the lot for
around the same selling (not asking) price. These cars do NOT sell
well. If I take my chances and just grind down the dealer, I can
probably get a warranty as well...IF they even will offer a warranty
on a 2.7.

 

So whenever you see something for sale that's priced lower than it's
true value you explain that the price is too low and offer more? I
doubt it. Don't be such a righteous ass.

Admit nothing. See above. It's not our job to educate everyone we meet
on the true value of something. It's all part of getting a good deal.
If she is happy with the price than nothing else matters. No one is
forcing her to accept it and she is free to ask others if the offer is
reasonable or not.

 

Oh - I was just challenging where you said "I really don't want to try
to 'program' her (she IS a neighbor!)". I suspected you were lieing.
Thanks for confirming. But even still you don't see your own
contradiction in your behavior as well as your treatment of your
"neighbor". No doubt if you do make any further comments, you will
continue to contradict yourself in this regard (i.e., "I won't take
advantage of my neighbor, but hey - it's not my job to educate her, so
I'll take advantage of her" - and all the stuff about poor market value
is just rationalization, unless you don't believe what you said about
fluffing, so you've pretty much trapped yourself either way).

Hmmm - I though you kill-filed me. Oh well. Doesn't matter.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

The only thing that has been confirmed is your not as smart as you
think and you need to get something straight before you continue to
make a complete ass out of yourself.

I'm not Bob.

Bob lives in California and I live in Pennsylvania.

My statements are mine alone and do not contradict anything. I'm not
trapped.
I'm not her neighbor. I'm not taking advantage of anyone. I'm not
offering to buy anyones vehicle. I haven't killfiled anyone.

That being said, my comments still hold true. If she is happy that's
all that matters for her and I doubt you offer people more for
something that's priced lower than it's true vale.