1997 LHS Alarm and Electrical issues...

Thanks Ken,

that is interesting. I assume it depends on how they use that 'common
wire'. If they were all daisy chained off one another then it's quite
possible one fault could kill everything down the line.

John

 

No, they do not... The Recirc door functions and I can hear it but the
air does not move from one vent to the next like it should.

Are the actuators sitting sort of diagonally/one behind the other in
the center of the car? I pulled a 5 wire connector from what I thought
was the temp/blend door and it looked surprisingly clean, like no water
had gotten to that but I can't see the connector for the mode door.

If it's the actuators themselves that are bad, I think I've tracked
down both, used, for $20.


John

 

Luckily, I knew what I was getting into...and even more thankfully,
there's no smell in my car at all. I suppose the fact that it wasn't a
submerged car and that it had new carpets/padding replaced as soon as
it happened (plus it's 2 years after the fact) make a big difference.
I, also, assume the time frame has a lot to do with it.. There a big
difference between a car that was flooded for a week or more vs one
flooded for a day or two.

John

 

Okay, there's 3 rows of numbers on the PLR
It says:
ASSY NO.
4607077

4687146 B
69832C 1297

and then engraved in the black plastic case is:
83159

I'd done it for 10-20 minutes the first day but left it disconnected
for an afternoon yesterday and came back to 23,24,32,32 but no 36! So
that's some improvement.

I believe that is correct. I pulled a 5 wire connector from what I
think is the Blend/Temp actuator and it looked clean. At one point
previously, when using the original ATC I'd also gotten an error 35
relating to the Evaporator Sensor (though that error has since
disappeared). All those items share the grey/tan wire according to the
diagram, IIRC, but not sure if that means anything.

I checked that out and it looked clean as a whistle. I think it may
actually be sitting above where the water line was in the car.

Thanks,
John

 

If they didn't move during diagnostics, they may be bad. Those actuators
contain feedback to the computer built in. If you replace that assembly then
you'll get everything new, so that should fix either problem of not moving
or not talking.

It's possible to R&R those without disassembling much of anything, but of
course it's not fun. You can do it, though.

 

Thanks for the numbers... I'll see what I can come up with for that!

Good sign! That points, almost definitely, to trouble with the actuators
themselves, as we now know that the ATC is working, as the code 36
(communication to the BCM) has been resolved..

According to the wiring diagram I have, the Grey/Tan going to the Evap Temp
Sensor is not tied into the Grey/Tan wires going to the other sensors. I'm
not saying that that's the case, as the book has proven to be wrong before.
What I see is the Temp sensor going through the 10-way connector, and them
straight to the BONE (natural) connector on the BCM. The Grey/Tan from the
other sensors (Blend, Mode, ATC in-Car, Sun) are just linked together to
each other... I'm not sure about this one, according to the wiring, this
is right for the standard controls, but I can't see how that would be
correct for the ATC unit??

Anyway, sorry it took so long, but I've got a few scans for you. Wiring
diagrams, and a couple images of the heater box to help you locate the two
actuators. I'm guessing you have found one of them. To help in
identification, the wire colors are as follows:
MODE DOOR: DG/YL, DB/WT, PK/DB, GY/TN, RD
BLEND DOOR: DB/RD, DB/WT, PK/DB, GY/TN, RD/WT

I'm wondering where you'd like to acquire the image files? I know your
Gmail account will hold them, just wondering if the one in the header of
your messages is valid. If so, I'll ship them off to you for your viewing
pleasure

 

Good luck! if you can't come up with anything let me know and I'll see
what I can find.

I found a lone scan from a 1994 LHS tech manual showing the layout and
it *seems* like they are indeed all tied into the same grey/tan wire
when using the ATC only. Granted, I'm not a great decipherer of wiring
diagrams but it does seem to be the case at least for the 1994 model.

Yes, that's more or less just a "garbage collecting" address and I
don't use it much for real correspondence but go ahead and send them
there and I'll be sure to check it. At least I know there is plenty of
space in that box.

Thanks again!

John

 

Images have been sent. If there is anything else you need besides those,
let me know...

 

Looks great, thanks! it's much appreciated. The only thing I need now
is the patience to get under there and change them. If I'm lucky,
my replacement actuators will arrive Friday and I'll slap them in
Friday evening. Assuming all goes well then my in-dash electrical work
will be complete, I think.

John

 

So, assuming the actuators fix the last defect, you essentially have a
new car, electrically at least.

 

Actually, I do have a question... When installing the 'new' actuator I
note that the shaft must be positioned the same as the old one. The
question is, how do I do this? I can't seem turn the shafts by hand, is
it safe to use a tool to manually turn it?


John

 

Are you referring to manually turning the actuators or the shafts
themselves?

I wouldn't try to turn the actuators. If they are the same or a similar
build inside them as the recirculation actuator, they have a worm gear
inside, and won't turn by hand. You'd end up breaking some teeth on the
gears inside.

I can't see why turning the shafts would be a problem. If they are that
stiff, maybe the actuators aren't the problem at all, maybe the doors
themselves are stuck... This would be a bad situation... I'll try to check
for some internal views of the heater box, and get back to you...

If the shafts for the doors are metal, maybe try a pair of pliers or
something on them, but I wouldn't put too much force it for fear of breaking
something inside. It's possible that if the shafts are metal, the may have
rusted, and are now kind of seized in their plastic mounting holes... Just
speculation on my part, but a possibility...

One other thing you might want to try... If you have both actuators (or
even one I guess) removed, plug the wiring harness back into them and try
running the diagnostic test again. This would definitely tell you if the
motors are bad. If they move freely on their own, you just might have stuck
doors, which would be a much worse problem.... The only reason I am
thinking this is that you had codes for both that indicate that they were
"stalled", which could mean that they are functioning, but the doors
themselves won't move. Hope not!

 

Hi...

One of his error codes in a previous message translated to "stalled".

Just thinking out loud if that's not perhaps indicating a seized-up
door?

Take care.

Ken

 

The actuators was what i was referring to... I haven't actually made it
out to the car yet today. I just noted in the removal instructions
that you should match mark the position because the new ones need to be
installed in the same position. Which didn't make much sense to me if
you can't move the new actuator to the same position. (shrug)

I haven't made it that far and I would hope this not to be the case.

Well, i would *think* that you WOULD get a stalled error if the motor
is not moving, wouldn't you? I can imagine having a working actuator
and then getting a error for a stalled door but would it even be
possible to have a defective actuator and still have a moving door?


John

 

You're right. That's what the message is for, but we're hoping it's really
the actuator itself, because it's going to be a major PITA to get into where
those doors are.

 

As an update, I've replaced the Blend/Temp Door Actuator tonight. The
door apparently moves fine now and I went from errors 23,24,32,33 to
only getting an error 24!

I shall tackle the Mode Door Actuator tomorrow and hopefully rid myself
of that final error. I'm having trouble getting to this one though as I
don't seem to have a tool to remove the front screw from the center
floor heat adapter ducting. It's in a place that seems inaccessible for
all of my tools. :-( I'll have to come up with something new but my
back couldn't bear anymore floor time tonight.

After that, I guess the dash can be pieced back together. Is there
anything else I should be doing under the dash (checking, preventative
maintenance, etc) before closing her back up?


John

 

As mentioned in my other msg, I've got one of the actuators replaced
(Blend/Temp) and am now down just to error 24. The door/shaft is
apparently all plastic, btw.

John

 

Unfortunately not. With the worm gear, you won't be able to turn it, except
by applying power to the motor portion. That is why I was figuring that you
would need to align the shaft itself, or perhaps slide the actuator onto the
shaft as far as you can, and then physically turn the actuator unit to line
up with the screw holes, thereby turning the door shaft at the same time.

I just wasn't sure how exactly the codes worked. I wasn't sure if you would
automatically get a stalled code at the same time as a feedback error code.
It didn't seem to make sense to me to get a stalled code if there was a
feedback error, as without the feedback, the computer wouldn't know if it
was stalled or still working. I just assumed that in order for a stalled
code to set, the computer would need the feedback circuit to function so it
would know that the actuator/door wasn't moving...

Oh well, at least based upon your other post, you eliminated the other
codes, so this is definitely a good sign. Once you get the other unit
replaced, you should be all set, with the exception of the AC. Good luck,
hope it all goes well once the other is changed out.

 

Do you have any issues with the airbag light coming on? If a portion of
your BCM managed to be under water, then your airbag controller most
certainly was... This unit is mounted under the center area of your dash.
It has probably been in your way the entire time you've been trying to
change out those actuators...

Just a thought, as you don't want an issue with that. If it gets crusty
inside, they may not go off, or even perhaps go off unexpectedly while your
going down the road! OUCH!

 

Is that what the metal boxy thing is in the center bottom with the two
connectors? I was wondering what that was as I hadn't seen reference to
it yet but given one of the connectors was yellow thought it might be
related to the air bag system.

Ouch, indeed! I checked the connectors and they looked fine. Otoh,
virtually all the connectors have been exceptionally clean even when
the components themselves were damaged. However, no problems with the
light in either case. I think the car must have been flooded just long
enough to short circuit random items but not long enough for any
measurable corrosion to set in. I'd, also, always heard that wiring
tends to become brittle and easily broken when it's been under water
but all the wiring in my LHS is quite flexible and clean.

I was in a salvage yard earlier pulling the seat tracks/motors from a
9x New Yorker and, frankly, it's under dash area was just as dirty as
my car started out as and it didn't have the excuse of a flood!

I *DID* check to see if it had the Park Lamp Relay for you but, alas,
it did not. it didn't even have the alarm/ATC or premium BCM or I would
have come out of there with a bag like Santa Claus. :-D

John