1992 Dodge Spirit Fuel Pump problem

I replaced the fuel pump on my car because it wasn't working. The new one
doesn't work either, so I was thinking that it could be the fuel pump relay,
so I bought one, even though I'm not 100% sure where it is located. I found
some relays located up by the car battery, but my new relay will only fit
into 2 of the 5 relay slots. But the fuel pump still does not get any power
regardless of which slot I put the new relay into... Could it be something
else? Is there another part that could have went out, such as a fuse or
something? I can't find any fuse related to the fuel system anywhere on the
car. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong area??? I'm totally stumped on this
situation... any ideas???

-Mark

 

How are you testing for fuel pump power? Remember, if the engine computer
(SBEC) doesn't see the distributor, it will not power up the ASD relay,
which means the fuel pump won't get power. To test for this, disconnect
the battery for a couple of minutes, reconnect it, crank the engine and
then pull the codes. If you see a code 11, the computer doesn't see the
distributor.

Fusible link, distributor optical pickup or hall effect pickup (depending
if this is the 4-cylinder or the V6), wiring between distributor and SBEC,
wiring between SBEC and relays, wiring between fuel pump relay and fuel
pump...

To check the computer codes:

With the engine off, switch the ignition key on-off-on-off-on,
leaving it "ON". Do not
go to "start", just "on" during this procedure.

Watch the "Check Engine" or "Power Loss" light. It will turn on, then go
off, then will begin to flash-out any trouble codes that have been stored.
For instance, if it flashes:

flash <pause> flash flash
<long pause>
flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash
<long pause>
flash flash flash flash flash <pause> flash flash flash flash flash

Then you have a 12 (one flash followed by two) a 35 (three and five) and a
55 (five and five). 55 means "end of codes" or, if by itself, "No codes
stored. Check the codes and report what you find.

 

It's the 2.5L. 4-cylinder engine. How does the distributor fit into the
fuel pump circuit? Are you talking about the same distributor as the one
under the distributor cap? Sorry, but I'm a little confused by your answer,
even though you may be right on target...

-Mark

 

The distributor generates a pulsed voltage, with the pulse frequency
varying, obviously, with how fast the engine is turning. The computer
looks at this signal to determine when to fire the ignition. If the
computer does NOT see this signal, it assumes that there is a problem that
will prevent the engine from running (it's right) and does not energize
the ASD relay, which means no power to the fuel pump or fuel injection
system.

The very same. The one and only.

Erm...what's hard to understand? I gave you the diagnostic procedure, step
by step. Go follow it.

And please, in your next post, cut out all groups but rec.autos.tech and
rec.autos.makers.chrysler. None of the rest of them have any business
seeing this, but I have no way of knowing what group you're reading from.

 

Checked the codes, they are:

12
41
55

 

(removed inappropriate newsgroups - can't you read?)

41 indicates a problem with your alternator field control circuit and
probably is unrelated to your fuel pump lack of power. Did you disconnect
the battery for a few minutes, reconnect it, attempt to start the engine
and then pull the codes? Or did you just pull them without
disconnect/reconnect/attempt-to-start?

 

Don't know what group you're reading/posting from, but my response to your
question is found in the one and only group on your crosspost list in
which your question is appropriate: rec.autos.makers.chrysler

 

I will re-do the steps and try it again... Where are you finding out what
the codes mean? I have 2 manuals: a Chiltons and a Haynes, and I can't find
codes in either of them...

-Mark

 

http://www.allpar.com/fix/codes.html

 

Very important to do all the steps provided. Ordinarily you can just jump
in and pull the codes, but in this particular case, disconnecting the
battery, leaving it sit a few minutes, reconnecting it, trying to start
the engine and *then* pulling the codes is diagnostic for a certain
specific fault that could be causing your issue. You are looking, by the
way, when you do this, for a code 11.

The ones I can't remember (I've owned numerous of these cars), I get out
of the '92 Factory Service Manual on the shelf behind my desk at my
office. There's a fairly good online list here:

http://www.allpar.com/fix/80s-codes.html

Neither of them is worth the paper it's printed on; far too much info is
left out or is present but incorrect. If you do your own maintenance,
having the factory service manual or, second preference, subscribing to
www.alldatadiy.com is an absolute must.

For Haynes/Chilton instructions see
http://u225.torque.net/haynes_instructions.html

DS

 

thanks!

 

The codes are still the same:

12
41
55

I re-did it twice, but get the same results every time...

-Mark

 

It's strange that you get a 41 after having disconnected the battery and
allowed the car to sit for a few minutes, then reconnected the battery and
attempted to start the engine, then checked the code. Usually 41 will not
be set unless the computer sees a charging system problem *with the engine
running*.

Assuming you're reading the codes correctly:

-Once you figure out why your fuel pump isn't receiving power, you've got
a charging system issue to look at.

-The computer sees the distributor signal, and so lack of distributor
signal is not why your fuel pump isn't getting power. Time to look at your
ASD relay, your fuel pump relay, and their control and power circuits, as
well as the wiring to the fuel pump itself.

When switching the ignition from off to on, do you *ever* hear the fuel
pump run briefly?

 

Daniel-
I never hear the fuel pump anymore, but I used to hear it "pressurize" right
before starting the car before it broke down.

Where is the ASD relay and what does it do? I tried to look in my manuals,
but can't find it referenced. I bought a fuel pump relay, however there are
two identical sockets that it can physically fit into. I've swapped it out
in both places, but nothing different happens when trying to start the
car...

-Mark

 

OK, so you definitely have a problem somewhere in your fuel pump control
or driver circuit. That includes the engine control computer (SBEC), the
feed wiring (from the SBEC) and the ground wiring tto the ASD and fuel
pump relays' 85 and 86 terminals, the fusible links through which power is
supplied to terminal 30 of the ASD and fuel pump relays, the relays
themselves, the feed wiring that runs from terminal 87 of the fuel pump
relay to the fuel pump, and the fuel pump ground wiring.

Grouped with the fuel pump, radiator fan and A/C clutch relays on the
driver's side of the engine bay.

Explained in an earlier post.

That's why you need a factory service manual, or at least a subscription
to alldatadiy.com . You cannot successfully diagnose and repair your car
with Haynes/Chilton's garbage.

 

before you do anything else take your keys and lock and unlock the doors then
try starting it
if the battery went dead then you may have tripped the alarm system and it
has shut down the pcm

 

Alternator brushes worn so low that battery is so run down that it
will crank but not enough voltage to pull-in the ASD relay?
Since they tend to rust inside, change it.

 

Highly doubtful.

I might agree with you here if I knew what "they" referred to.

 

Or not.
ASD relays.

 

Sorry, but I've been out of pocket for the last week or so, just started a
new job...

I already replaced the alternator last month.

-Mark