I have a 1991 Dodge Spirit. I took it into the shop for a new fan belt a couple months ago, and they told me I also needed new front sway bar links. I decided not to believe them, so I didn't have them put in the new links. Afterwards, I thought about it, and I wondered if I should have had them do the work. My Dodge has had steering problems for a while -- it takes a lot more effort than it should to make it steer straight, especially at highway speeds. And I started wondering if this was because of the sway bar links. So I took it into a different shop. I had them do an oil change, and I specifically told them to look for any problem with the front sway bar links. What they said really surprised me. They said that (1) my 1991 Dodge Spirit isn't even supposed to have front sway bar links; (2) even if there was a problem with front sway bar links, they wouldn't expect it to affect steering; (3) they tried driving it, and saw no steering problem; and (4) they also said they looked at the whole front end and didn't find anything wrong. It's weird that the second shop would be wrong about this, because it's in their interest to find things to fix. But they were certainly wrong about #3, since there is a steering problem (though it's less noticeable at slow speeds). So I'm left with these questions: 1. Is a 1991 Dodge Spirit supposed to have front sway bar links? 2. If there's a problem with the front sway bar links, what symptoms would I notice as a result? Will it make the car harder to steer straight? 3. What's a fair price for fixing the sway bar links? Thanks to anybody who can help me with this. Greg
I don't believe that a Spirit has sway bars, unless it is the ES model. I have a 1990, and in the near 16 years that I have had it, the struts have been replaced twice, and the left ball joint twice too. The struts were done last month, and really smoothed out the ride, and got ride of several *clunks* that were there. -Kirk Matheson
It's quite possible that you could use new sway bar end-links. No, I don't see any much reason for bad sway bar links to cause wandering at highway speeds. Bad sway bar links will show up in odd noises--clunks, squeaks--when you try to corner at any decent pace and the car starts to lean. This is hopefully terminology and not ignorance. The sway bar "links" in the K-derivatives are rubber blocks in the control arms. The control arms are the things at the bottom of the car that connect the wheel spindle assembly to the body. On the underside of the control arms, you will see a steel bar, approximately 1" in diameter. It ends in a rubber block that is held in a channel in the control arm by a bolted-on cap. This rubber block can become deformed or the hole can wear out. Then the sway bar can move around and make noise. The traditional GM sway-bar end links that I am familiar with are indeed a different design, where a long rod runs vertically from a hole in the end of the sway bar to the control arm. Maybe this is where the confusion is coming from. Have you checked your tire pressure? How are the tires wearing? If the tires are good and inflated to spec, the next step would be to get a front-end alignment. Yes, rubber blocks. Answered above. Each link is about $15 if I recall. Your Spirit should have the cast-iron control arms if I have my years right, in which case I don't see the job taking more than half an hour from putting the car on the hoist to driving it away. If I'm wrong on the control arm design and they are the stamped-steel kind, and your car is pretty rusty, it can take a while longer. They should not charge more than an hour for the job in any case. (I can do it with hand tools and without a hoist in that time.)
That would explain the difference of opinion, so I guess you're probably right. I haven't noticed this, but I will pay more attention in the future. Okay, great, that settles that. I'll certainly check the tire pressure, but this has been going on for months and months, both before and after I got new tires and got them aligned last summer. I must admit I don't know if there is a difference between a "tire alignment" (which I had done last summer) and a "front-end alignment." After talking with my dad about this, I gather that my next step is to take it in to the best alignment place in the city and have them look over it. Basically, this has all been very helpful, so thanks a lot! It leaves me with a couple of questions, though. 1. Is there a difference between "tire alignment" and "front end alignment"? Pardon my ignorance. 2. If not, what should I do about my steering problem? It is getting really bad. I feel I have no choice but to take it in to the best alignment place in town and say "Look, I got the tires aligned last summer but it still won't drive straight. Do a front-end alignment and look for worn parts to replace." But it depresses me how much this might cost. (Of course I'll check the tires before I do this.) 3. How important is it to replace the rubber sway-bar links? Is this something I need to bother with? I guess that's it, then. Thanks again to both of you who replied. Greg
Used to be a tire alignment and front-end alignment were synonymous. Now you get a 4-wheel alignment, also called a tire alignment (front end alignment alone is obsolete). The best way is to have the shop agree ahead of time that they will give you a 'before' and 'after' printout of your aligment measurements. If the shop refuses, find another shop. Without that, you are at the shops mercy to diagnose the problem correctly (requires competence and honesty). You can post the printout numbers for interpretation. The 'before' and 'after' numbers will tell you if the problem you are presently having is related to the alignment as it existed then, and if the problem still remains, was corrected by the new alignment, etc. That way, you know how to attack the problem (i.e., is there some suspension part that is worn or bent that needs to be replaced to bring your alignment into spec., or is it a tire problem, did they align it correctly, or did they fudge something that was borederline, etc., etc.). Mainly just for noise related issues and handling on curves. As Ed said: Sway bar issues do not affect whether it steers straight or not. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
You realise, of course, that the machine operator can rather easily make the "Before" and "After" printouts say anything he wants, right?
I'm not surprised. But that would take some pretty blatant dishonesty - that's a different dishonesty than not being able to bring certain parameters into spec. and just not saying anything to the customer ("What the customer doesn't know won't hurt them"). For the trouble of having to explain something that doesn't make sense, maybe they would just break down and focus on fixing any problems, straight-talking the customer, and truly bringing things into spec. Kind of serving the same purpose as auditing in the financial/business world - at least they know someone is paying attention - "do I want to risk getting caught red-handed in case this customer really does know what's going on". Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
In case anyone is interested in a follow-up, here are the alignment figures: http://www.gregboettcher.com/alignment.jpg (They said they didn't fix the rear toe because it wasn't bad enough to be worth the money to fix.) Unfortunately, after an alignment and after getting one of my tires balanced, the problem still remains. Balancing the tire helped a bit, but not a lot. The confusing part is, when I originally took the car in for the alignment, they said I had a bent rim. Then, later, when they balanced the tire, they said they could find no bent rim, even though they admitted the car was driving as though it did have a bent rim. I guess I'll have to do two things: 1. Take it to another shop and see if it does have a bent rim. I really think it must. 2. Get the front tires replaced. No questions this time, I'm just posting this in case anyone is interested. Greg
According to the printout, your front toe was pretty far out before this latest alignment. That could have caused some irregular wear problems on your front tires due to scrubbing. Probably new tires is the only solution to the steering problem. The rear tires would not have been damaged by that (the rear toe is out, but not too bad). Try swapping tires front-to-back - if the problem changes then it is the tires causing the steering not to be straight. BTW - you may or may not have a bent rim, but that would not cause it not to steer straight. Don't get distracted by the bent-rim question - wait until you get the other problem straightened out. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
They did say the tires were worn around the outside, so I guess I'll replace them soon. What problems would be caused by a bent rim? It isn't so much that the car veers off to the left or right, but you have to keep moving the steering wheel back and forth to make the car drive straight when going 45 mph or more. At the shop they made it sound like this type of problem could be caused by a bent rim. Thanks again for the help. I really appreciate it. I'll get the tires replaced soon, and then maybe I'll check into the rims as my next priority. Greg
Then they are incompetent. You're welcome. No - bent rim will not cause that problem. Bent rim will cause shaking/vibration that cannot be corrected with balancing - just like an out-of-round tire. I still think your tires (damaged by the previous out-of-alignment condition) are the problem. Again - to satisfy your curiosity until you can get some new tires, try swapping front and rear tires to see how that affects the problem. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
