1970 Demon question

Hi all,

spotted a bright green Duster with a hood scoop sitting at the side of
the road with a for sale sign in the window, so of course I had to stop
and check it out. Actually looked pretty solid, a little evidence of
rust repair in the quarters but overall not bad. Turned out to have
Demon 340 badges on it. Two things that make me wonder if it's a "real"
Demon though - it had a column shift automatic and front drum brakes.
Also front seat upholstery did not match rear making me wonder if the
buckets were swapped in. So the questions - is this possibly still an
original Demon? What would be a fair price to offer? I'd call it a #3
condition car, although it apparently passed safety inspection a year
and a half ago. Excellent 20-footer with only a few minor issues up
close, and headliner was missing and dash a little cracked, other than
that looked to be a solid driver (although I have no way of knowing if
there are any mechanical issues or not.)

thanks for any advice,

nate

(haven't had an A-body in something like 12 years now)

 

The Demon was a variation of the Dart, so it could be that someone
tried to make a Demon from a Dart. If you can get the VIN, you could
probably find someone that could decode it for you.

Like you say, the buckets may have been swapped in, replacing a bench
seat. Also, as it has a 340, I would think it would have come with a 4
speed, or an automatic with floor mounted selector.

It all comes down to what you would want it for. If you want it to be
able to pass the VIN and "numbers matching" test, you would probably
be happier with something different. If this does not matter to you,
then you would probably be okay with the vehicle you describe.

-KM

 

I SERIOUSLY doubt that its a real Demon, but I no longer remember what
the VIN and fendertag codes for a Demon should be. Amazing, back in the
early 90s I remembered all the "important" codes for genuine Mopar
muscle. I'm gettin' old :-(

But I do remember that there weren't a great number of Demons built, so
today real Demons are one of the higher-priced A-bodies. If its a solid
car (how do the rear stub-frame rails and the spring perches look?) then
it might still be worth snagging, if the asking price isn't astronomical
even if its just a 318 Dart. I may be getting REALLY outdated, but I
still believe that no "20-footer" A-body should be worth more than $5k.

You might drop the question over in alt.hi-po.mopars (aw hell, I'll just
crosspost it myself.)

 

That's kind of what it comes down to. I'd rather have a four-speed
myself. All I can say is that it did have the slotted taillight panel
which IIRC was Demon only? I still haven't called the guy because I
don't know whether I want to bother with something that isn't what I
really want (and may not have a lot of intrinsic collector value)
however the number of decent A-bodies I've seen for sale has dropped off
dramatically in the last ten years.

And, of course, I'd have to spin it by the finance department...

nate

 

On the other hand, Nate, if it's the real deal, you are sure to loose
out to someone who will certainly get the jump on you. When you come
across what may potentially be a once-in-a-blue-moon-deal, you have to
do your homework and verification rapidly and, if it checks out, *MOVE*
on it. Or perhaps your hesitation is your subconcious saying you really
wouldn't get it even if it checks out - and that's OK. I guess what I'm
saying is either get it or not get it because you conciously decided to
get/not get - not due to hesitation/inaction.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

That probably sounded preachy - but you know what I'm saying.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Yeah I hear you... basically the whole deal is that I'd love to have a
"warm" A-body, it's on my short list (along with a Volvo 1800, an early
Scirocco, a pre-'73 Chevy pickup, and a couple other cars...) but on the
flip side, I do have an Avanti-powered '55 Stude coupe that I still
haven't gotten on the road yet, despite having been "almost done" for
about six months... so the wisdom of buying ANY car right now is
questionable, although my inner car guy really just wants a yard full of
interesting machinery.

I predict I won't make it through the week without at least calling the
seller

nate

 

The Demon was produced for '71 and '72 model years, and didn't sell well --
making any Demon worth more than a similarly-equipped Duster in similar
condition. The sheetmetal of the Demon's rear pan had vertical slots for
the tail lights, whereas the Duster (for '70 thru '72) had horizontal slots.
The Demon shared the Dart front sheetmetal. It could've been ordered w/
other-than a HP engine, including the Slant 6 (a friend had a 318 w/
floorshift 3-speed).

You can check the 13 digit VIN here: http://www.mopar1.us/vin.html. The last
7 digits are the serial number.
Some reading: http://www.valiant.org/duster.html and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Dart.
A magazine ad showing standard & optional equipment:
http://www.uawdcx.com/images/demon.jpg
Some photos here, showing the rear pan of a Demon:
http://www.ralphsrapidtransit.com/demonpage1.html

Bryan
'68 Barracuda 340-S 'fish' back
'69 Barracuda 340-S 'ragged' top

 

I wouldn't use the seats or column shift as a qualifier. If I remember
things
from that long ago, almost EVERY vehicle back then could have come
with either seat configuration or column shift. (My neighbors Super Bee
had bench seats and column automatic...)

I'd search the VIN or try to find something unique for the Demon that
couldn't have been swapped or easily faked.

 

Thanks, that VIN decoder may come in handy should I try to check it
out.

The one thing that concerns me is that you say it was only 71-72...
car was labeled as '70 and the front end looked like a 70 - were 71-72
similar? when did they switch to the ugly front end with the more
vertical grille?

thanks,

nate

(bear with me, it's been a while since I've been into these cars)

 

http://www.valiant.org/duster.html agrees with my recollection -- the Demon
appeared in '71 and lasted only thru the '72 model year. One reference I
gave indicates the Demon was available thru '73, but that's the only
reference I've seen, and I don't recall ever seeing (or hearing of) such an
animal.
If the VIN (6th digit) indicates it's a '70, it's a Duster... originally
dubbed the "Valiant Duster". In '70-72?, the Duster used a front grille
with vertical fins, while the Demon used the front sheetmetal and grille
from the Dart. Again, the rear pan is a dead giveaway as to whether it's a
'70-72 Duster (horizontal openings for the tailights) or '71-72 Demon
(vertical openings for the tailights). The '73-up Duster had completely
different tailights (no vertical or horizontal openings for the tailights).
Bryan

 

I had a '71 Demon (340 Pistol-Grip 4sp.), 4 Dusters, & 5 or 6
Dart/Valiant/Scamps. If I recall correctly the Demon was 71 & 72 only. Only
the Demons had vertical slots for the tail-lights (I have a set). The 71
Demons had a nice looking Vertical Slotted Grill, the 72 was more of a
honey-comb. I think they all had Ralley dashes too (built in Tach... The
Speedo & Tach are both the same size & Round.... a Duster dash is
different.). There will also be Demon emblems on the dash & on the interoir
door covers. They came with a flat black snorkel hood scoop in the middle or
twin painted scoops just inside the hood ridges. (I have both, two complete
Demon front clips are sitting in my basement now).
My 71 demon got broad-sided by a Ford Pick-up & was totalled. I did salvage
the drive-train, complete front-clip, tail lights, interior, Dash,ect...
Eventually I put the Demon Front clip on a Duster. For some reason the The
Demon Hood didn't exactly match up with the Duster hood-hinges & reqired the
holes in the hood-hinges to be extended 1/2 inch (or you could drill new
bolt hole in the hood), so check that. Also check the frame right in front
of the doors (the rust out there) & look in the trunk to see if the shocks
have pushed up thru, look to see if the torsion bar sub-frame is Ok too (all
can be fixed, but you don't want a 'fixed' car if resale/show value is
important to you... it isn't important to me).
A few years ago I stopped to look at a Demon for sale. It was ragged-out,
in sad but restorable shape, 318 4-sp., & the interior was a mess.... the
kid had put drag-racer style buckets in it. The car basically looked like a
young hotrodder had just been pounding it like I did with my 1st Demon at
the age of 19 (& probably having the time of his life in his 'mucle-car').
The asking price was $3500. I thought that was kind of high, but I wanted
it. I thought about it for a few days & went to go take another look.... it
was gone. Someone did me a favor by poneying up the $3500.
How did that do me a favor? Well, a few months later a came across a '73
Duster, 318 4-sp., fold-down rear seat for $1200. It was listed in a weekly
paper that comes out every Wednesday, but they actually deliver it to the
stores on Tuesday night. I called the guy on Tuesday Night as soon as I saw
the ad & told him I would take it sight unseen (luckily, he worked a
night-shift job & had just got home so I didn't feel so bad about calling a
stranger after mid-night). I went to his house on Wednesday to pay for the
car & he told me his phone had been ringing off the hook all day about the
car... close to 20 other people called about it. He said he was selling it
because his old furnace had finally given up the ghost and, well, winter was
fast approaching.
The $1200 Duster is in alot better cosmetic shape than the $3500 Demon was
and probably was beat less. I might stick one of the Demon Front-clips on it
next spring, I'm thinking about it, & adding a 392/400 stroker (360). It
will still be a Duster, but a Duster with a Dart/Demon front clip. I don't
buy them for resale value or to take them to shows... I buy them because I
like to drive them (hard) & it makes me feel good bee-bopping around town in
a sweet ride.

PS. Anybody else see Death Proof yet? The Kill Bill, Natual Born Killers guy
made it. He has an 18 minute mopar car-duel in it... The Charger from Bullet
(driven by Kurt Russell) bangs fenders with the Challenger from Vanishing
Point (operated by three chicks). They said they actually used (and
destroyed) a dozen of each car... how sad. There is also a 70ish Nova & a
Rustang in the movie. The Nova is named Death Proof and has a
skull/crossbones on the hood.

 

[Quoting multiple posters]

This makes you wonder if it's real because...why? The Demon was
available as everything from an el-strippo with base 198 CID slant-6,
3-on-the-tree, radio-delete unit with nonpower 9" drum brakes at all
four corners, all the way up to a fire-breathin' Demon 340 with 4-
speed or automatic, power disc brakes front and 10" drums rear,
accessory lights and chrome trims everywhere, hood scoops, bumper
guards, FM/AM radio, air conditioning, fancy bucket seats, twin remote
mirrors, etc. There was also a Demon Sizzler package, analogous to the
Duster Twister, which gave you a 225 or 318 engine, automatic trans
(usually on the column), some dress-up and popular accessory
equipment, and special decals.

Correct. There are no '70 Demons. A '71 Demon's VIN will start out as
follows:
LL29B1 (Demon w/198 engine)
LL29C1 (Demon w/225 engine)
LL29G1 (Demon w/318 engine)
LM29M1 (Demon 340 w/340 engine)

'72 Demon VINs are the same except with a "2" in place of the "1".

The only difference between the '70 Dart and '71 Dart/Demon front end
is the colour of the main area of the grille. Medium argent in '70,
black in '71. In '72, a different grille was used. All '70-'72 Dart/
Demon grilles are directly swappable. Remember also, all '67-'72 A-
body front end assemblies (fenders + hood + front valence + front
bumper + radiator support) are directly swappable, and '73-'76 A-body
front end assemblies go on with only minor adaptation, so it's
entirely possible someone tossed a Dart front clip on a Duster body to
repair crash damage. You may want to check if the VIN plate visible
through the windshield contains the same number as the fender tag on
the driver's inner fender, though it's also possible to swap those
plates when a front clip swap is done.

There was never a vertically-oriented grille on the Dodge A-body. They
were always full-width horizontal items. More specificity, please (by
e-mail, if you want me to see it...I'm only here by transient
happenstance)

For '73, the name was changed to "Dart Sport", because the usual
suspects went around bitching about satanic, unChristian car names.
The Dart Sport lasted through '76.

No, in '70-'72 the Duster used the same horizontal-lines grille as the
Valiant. Only the Duster 340 and Duster Twister got the "shark tooth"
grille you're thinking of here.

DS

 

Thanks Daniel... I now know more than I used to!
Bryan

 

re: the "vertical grille" my memory was playing tricks on me. I was
thinking of the raised center that after DAGS appears to have only been
used on the '76 Valiant. However, it does appear that the front end on
both changed in '73 to a less attractive (IMHO) design, and this car was
not one of them.

Either the car sold or the owner is no longer selling it however, as it
disappeared from where I saw it parked the next time I went back, so my
wallet is safe for now. I guess I'll spend my year-end bonus on boring
stuff like paying down debt or building up my savings or something
hideously responsible like that

nate