'02 Intrepid Starter Grinding Flywheel

Hi, On cold mornings sometimes my 2002 Dodge Intrepid starter will
grind the flywheel. The engine will give a cough that makes me think
that maybe the spark is advanced too much for a cold start. Is that
possible? The dealer has worked on it twice in less than a year and
both times says he put in a new starter. After the last "new starter"
it ground the flywheel the next two mornings. I heard of someone with a
new Chrysler who had the same problem and a dealer who couldn't find a
solution. Is this a common problem with Chrysler products?
Thanks, Mike

 

No, but I'm not sure I understand your symptoms.
Are you saying it just keeps trying to start, but even though it's
turning over it doesn't start. If so I wouldn't suspect the starter.
My '95 Concord starts in a second or two.

 

The engine starts OK, but every so often, when cold starting, the
starter and flywheel will make that high pitched grinding sound that
you would get if you turned the key when the engine was already
running. After a second or two the engine will then start. It's like
the starter goes in and hits the flywheel instead of engaging it.

Anyone that I've described it to says, "Oh, the starter's hanging up",
but supposedly the dealer has put in two new starters, with no luck.

 

As the owner of two LH cars and participant in two LH-specific forums,
I'd say it certainly isn't a common problem.

Which engine do you have?

You might post on the www.dodgeintrepid.net forums - also try a search
there on some good key words like 'starter' and/or 'flywheel'.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

 

Was the work performed under a warranty/service contract? If not, you
have the right to request the old part. (Although if the shop isn't
honorable, who knows what old part you might receive). This could help
you determine what is/isn't replaced.

I haven't heard of those symptoms. Perhaps there is something wrong
with the Bendix not releasing properly? Does it sound like the engine
tries to start, but doesn't start completely right away while the Bendix
is still engaged?
(apologies to Honeywell or Knorr-Bremse or whoever holds the Bendix
trademark these days)

Which engine does your car have?

I understand that the 2nd gen LH cars (at least the 1999 model year, and
I assume all model years) are designed not to allow one to engage the
starter by turning the key after the engine has started. I've never
tested this feature, but I recall reading about it in the owner's manual
or the video that came with the car, and assume it is software in the PCM.

 

The engine is a 2.7. This morning it cranked a second or two, made the
"starter grinding the flywheel" sound, then started after another
second or two. I never let up on the key so the starter was turning the
whole time. Does it sound like maybe there's teeth missing from the
ring gear?

I bought it used from the dealer and bought a service plan at the same
time. The dealer claims to have put in two new starters under the
service plan. Do you think they are putting me off with this starter
story so they don't have to go to the expense of putting in a new ring
gear? Trusting car dealers isn't my long suit.
Thanks, Mike

 

I'm not sure what is causing the problem by your description. It sounds like
the dealer isn't diagnosing it either. The service contract is presumably to
fix the problem not to replace parts, so I would just tell them that the problem
still exists exactly as before and it is up to them to diagnose/fix it. Its
best to do this now rather than later. Is the service contract issued by
Daimler Chrysler, the dealer itself, or a third party ? If it is by D-C you
could try using another dealer.

If it is indeed stripped gear, I would expect something to happen every time the
starter gear touched the bad flywheel gear section. Perhaps something is
causing the starter gear to retract or interrupts power temporarily to the
starter during cranking?

 

Hi...

Just another thought... wonder if it's possible that the
starter isn't installed correctly? If, for example, one or both
of the bolts were loose and had backed out a little, the starter
wouldn't be squarely lined up and the gears wouldn't mesh nicely?

Worse thought; what if one or both of the mounting holes was
stripped?

Just a thought.

Take care.

Ken

 

Not only that, it is almost impossible on ANY Chrysler product, because
the transmission housing and starter case are machined to set the pinion
depth, unlike Ch*vrolet starters that have to be shimmed to work right.

I wonder if you have a damaged ring gear, or perhaps its the starter's
own overrunning clutch that is "chattering" under load, inwhich case the
dealer just fibbed about replacing the starter.

 

If that were the case, I'd expect it to make a racket EVERY time that
spot on the gear went past the starter. It would also be really easy to
spot ring gear damage by getting it to "grind," letting go the key, and
then removing the starter and inspecting the gear through the starter
mounting hole.

I now suspect the starter drive clutch is not holding solidly when its
overstressed, and the "grinding" is actually the overruuning clutch
chattering. The fact that it grabs and goes after a second or so would
tend to agree with that, but if that's whats going on it will eventually
tear itself up enough that it won't turn the engine at all.

 

As you have seen here your problem is puzzling and one needs to be there
to diagnosis it.
It doesn't matter what the dealer says he has done if the problem isn't
fixed.
I suggest you get another opinion locally. Another garage or at an auto
club.

 

The service plan is from Daimler Chrysler so I could take it to another
dealer. Do you know if their plan will cover repairs made at a non
Chrysler repair shop?

 

The noise may not be what you think. We had it in a 99 300M. The car had
auto climate control. The noise occured sometimes when the are had been in
recirulate air mode when turned off and back on.

 

The problem took a sharp turn for the worse today. When I tried to
start it all that I could hear was the starter spinning. No engagement
of the flywheel or any other sounds, just the spinning of the starter
motor. I'm going to have it towed to the dealer tomorrow and hope for
the best. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to help.
Mike

 

Let us know. Might be a good thing that it broke for good since it should
be a lot easier to diagnose.

Bob

 

The contract will spell out the details. If it allows you to use non DC dealers, it
probably requires pre approval from DC itself. This is probably only granted if you
break down far away from a DC dealer or there is some other problem. Again, check the
contract.

 

Hopefully they'll be able to fix it now. Please write back what happens!

 

Very good, you now will get a real fix.
we'll all be interested if they found any gears on the flywheel. <

 

I just got it back from the dealer and the mechanic says it was the
solenoid wire that wasn't sending enough juice. He says that the reason
it started OK on warm mornings but not cold ones was that the engine
cranked a little bit longer when cold. He thinks the starter was
cutting out and then back in while the flywheel was turning. I've
started it maybe 15 -20 times so far with no trouble. I'm keeping my
fingers crossed.
Thanks to everyone for your help. Mike