'00 Grand Caravan SE, which tranny fluid to use?

2000 Dodge Grand Caravan SE, 3.3L Flex Fuel engine.

Friend's van, and I'm a stick guy, so I don't know if P-R-N-D-3-L makes it a
3-spd or a 4-spd autobox. (Don't know if the reverse gear is counted in
auto trannies.)

She lost the owner's manual, and fuckin' Mopar won't let you download one
for free, unlike Ford. So I've been looking online to find out what tranny
fluid to use.

Seems you _can_ use ATF+4 in this model year. What I'm not sure is, do you
_have_ to? Cause if not, I'd rather buy ATF+3 for her fluid change, rather
than pay a premium for DC's stupid monopoly on ATF+4. The local dealer sez
use ATF+4, but I never trust dealers, and particularly not when they
recommend something only they can sell me.

I can't find a clear explanation anywhere of when Chrysler went to requiring
ATF+4, and when ATF+3 was still OK to use.

Tx.

 

Well if you Google this newsgroup, you will find a HUGE debate about
various fluid types and additives.

However, if I recall correctly, the ATF+3 is for use in chysler
transmissoins built prior to 1996??? (or is that 1998??)

But anything after that (incl. 2000 model year) the specified fluid is
ATF+4.

hth

 

Per TSB 21-16-99, the transition to ATF+4 (Chrsyler Spec 9602) at the factory
took place at the following dates and serial numbers for each body type:

**GS** **AFTER NOVEMBER 8, 1999 (MDH1108XX)**
JA AFTER SEPTEMBER 7, 1998 (MDH0907XX)
**JX** **AFTER MAY 21, 1999 (MDH0521XX)**
LH AFTER JULY 20, 1998 (MDH0720XX)
**NS** **AFTER OCTOBER 10, 1999 (MDH1010XX) WINDSOR ASSY PLANT**
**AFTER OCTOBER 18, 1999 (MDH1018XX) ST LOUIS ASSY PLANT**
11TH POSITION OF VIN - R = WINDSOR/B = ST LOUIS
**PL** **AFTER APRIL 24, 1999 (MDH0424XX)**
PR AFTER JULY 20, 1998 (MDH0720XX)

Another TSB specifies which earlier vehicles can/should be switched to ATF+4.
IIRC, it was all Chrysler vehicles except certain minivans, although that
exception may no longer be in effect.

 

This will tell you what you need to know.

http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2001/21-006-01.htm

Jerry

 

Others have posted the links to the authoritative info.

But *SHE* would rather you use the correct fluid and saver her a ton of
grief and money down the line.

DS

 

x-no-archive: yes

Penny Wise, Pound Foolish. Anything you save by using the wrong fluid will be a
false economy that you will likely pay many times over in repairs. Why not use
the proper fluid that Chrysler's engineers has determined is proper for your
transmission? ATF+4 isn't that expensive, everything considered.

 

If you don't trust what the authority on the product sells than by all
means put dexron/mercon in it or better yet type f. That will make the
clutches grab real good. ;-)

 

ATF+4 unless you want to lose a friend (and a transmission) in the near future.

 

If the vehicle came with ATF+3 and has never been changed over to ATF+4
then there is no reason not to use ATF+3 in the transmission. Once you
change over there is no going back. My truck (1999) was sold with ATF+3
in it and that is all I use. The thing Mike has to be sure about is
what is in the transmission right now.

Jerry

 

Um, the "authority on the product" has a monopoly on it and therefore has a
vested interest in selling it.

If you believe a given dealership is the real authority on how to repair a
vehicle and which parts to use, the dealer may love you, but you're being
naive. Many have come to expensive grief this way.

And thanks, I've done enough homework to know not to put anything but ATF+X
in these crappy Chrysler trannys.

Mike

 

Thanks. As I don't know whether this thing came with ATF+4 from the
factory, it looks like I'd better go with it now.

Mike

 

Yep. I remember there was an insert card in the owner's manual telling her
to ignore whatever tranny fluid the manual specified and to instead use ...
well there's the damn thing, I can't remember what the card said, and she
lost it and the manual. I vaguely remember it saying to not use ATF+X and
instead use ATF+Y, but which way it went, who knows.

Gonna stick with ATF+4 to be safe!

Mike

 

They become "crappy" if/when you DON'T use the correct fluid.

 

They do, they hold the patent on the additive package and have only licensed
it to one manufacturer. Supposedly there is no requirement that this fluid
producer
only sell their output to Damlier Chrysler but somehow most of the worlds
production
of ATF +4 ends up at DC.

There are a few leaks, however. I forget who but there's a Canadian
producer
that sells ATF +4, and as that producer is also whom makes it for DC, it's
probably the real thing.

There's been repeated requests by the fluid manufacturers to DC to license
the
patent to them for production. These so far have been ignored. What all
this
means is that the second the patent runs out, sometime in the next decade,
all
the fluid producers will immediately start selling ATF +4 and to hell with
what
DC wants.

There has always been a kind of gentlemen's agreement with the fluid
manufacturers
and the automakers on these issues. When the automakers need a new type of
fluid they cooperate with the R&D department of a specified fluid
manufacturer
and get one custom designed. The deal works out to the maker puts up the
money
to make the fluid, then gets to hold the patent until it expires. The fluid
maker gets
to license the rights to make it very cheaply then sell it back to the
maker, and to
everyone else. Then the fluid makers sell it on the open market and
everyone makes
a lot of money. This is how ATF +3 worked out. With ATF +4 Chrysler got
greedy
and decided to use ATF+4 as a leverage to get people to come into dealership
service departments, and to make money off fluid sales. Of course, an
automaker
is not setup to distribute fluids and can only do so very inefficiently,
which is why
they sell the stuff for the $5 a bottle or whatever rediculous price it is
now.

The ONLY saving grace on ATF+4 is that unlike ATF +3 it IS a synthetic
fluid.
Thus it in theory can last the life of the car, (not my words, I'll refer
you to the
synthetic oil crowd for rediculous claims) and never needs changing. (yeah
right)

Ted

 

On Tuesday I called around and discovered that both our area Chrysler
dealerships (unrelated ownership) were selling ATF+4 for the same price:
$7.20/qt. Youch! Still, I felt I had no choice but to get it, to be sure I
was doing the best thing for my friend's van. (Me to parts guy at
dealership: "So when's Chrysler gonna let somebody else sell this stuff?"
Parts guy: "Hopefully never.") So I picked up two gallons and did the
flush.

The good flush did the trick. Tranny now behaves properly.

The bad I needed another two quarts following the flush to achieve
correct fluid level. So two days later (yesterday) I went back to the same
dealer for the final two quarts, and guess what - the price had dropped to
$5.10/qt.

Doh!!!

Mike

 

buy the gallon containers

much cheaper per quart

 

question.....

did you buy the qrts from the same guy you bought the gallons from ?

 

yep. he said "all our stuff just went down," meaning not just the atf+4.
The per gallon cost at the time I bought the gallon containers saved very
little over the $7.20/qt cost, I think the gallon was like $27 versus $28.80
if I'd bought it per quart.

 

was curious. at times i can go to the parts house and they can give me
different quotes depending on whos reading the book.

any way its good to know its coming down some in price now.

 

Yep, I just priced ATF +4 at my local DC dealer in NJ. a couple days ago and it
was $5 a qt. even.

Lou